Legendary Races

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Jul 2010, 11:29

I'm trying to decide what the craziest, rejectful race is. By that I mean non-stop action I.E passing, crashing, rejects doing well, weather conditions, numptys at the FIA etc. I believe it is a tie between the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix, and the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix. What are your views.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Jul 2010, 11:38

The 1999 European Grand Prix, the 2000 German Grand Prix, the 2003 British Grand Prix, the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix and the 2007 Canadian Grand Prix all are up there for sure.

But it's probably a straight fight between Canada 07 and Spa 98 for sheer rejectdom

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Jul 2010, 11:44

I forgot about the 1999 European Grand Prix. I can't watch the last laps of it because I feel so sorry for poor Badoer.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Jul 2010, 12:03

Monaco '96 has to be up there. Monaco '82 aswell just for the last couple of laps. Australia '95, and from what I've read Canada '73 was a complete mess.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Jul 2010, 12:04

shinji wrote:Monaco '82 aswell just for the last couple of laps..

Wasn't there like 6 or 7 guys in contention for the win in the final 5 or so laps of that race?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Jul 2010, 12:11

Wizzie wrote:
shinji wrote:Monaco '82 aswell just for the last couple of laps..

Wasn't there like 6 or 7 guys in contention for the win in the final 5 or so laps of that race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UG-adctePU

Prost crashed, Patrese spun, Pironi retired, de Cesaris retired, Daly crashed, Patrese restarted and won.

Post by **tommykl** » 17 Jul 2010, 12:45

To be complete, Daly didn't retire directly because of the crash.
His car had no front or back wing, which meant he had to drive quite slowly, effectively drowning the electric system. :ugeek:

coops · Post by **coops** » 17 Jul 2010, 13:37

East Londoner wrote:I forgot about the 1999 European Grand Prix. I can't watch the last laps of it because I feel so sorry for poor Badoer.

It choked me at the time, although I was chuffed for Herbert. I dont think I've ever seen a better example of just how much it meant to a driver to get a point (and a possible drive for next season). It was so unfair. Didnt Minardi get a point with Gene?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Jul 2010, 13:52

tommykl wrote:To be complete, Daly didn't retire directly because of the crash.
His car had no front or back wing, which meant he had to drive quite slowly, effectively drowning the electric system.

Well what matters is that he was Irish, and he didn't win.

Post by **tommykl** » 17 Jul 2010, 14:02

shinji wrote:
tommykl wrote:To be complete, Daly didn't retire directly because of the crash.
His car had no front or back wing, which meant he had to drive quite slowly, effectively drowning the electric system.

Well what matters is that he was Irish, and he didn't win.

And only picked up the 6th place as consolation.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 17 Jul 2010, 15:23

shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
shinji wrote:Monaco '82 aswell just for the last couple of laps..

Wasn't there like 6 or 7 guys in contention for the win in the final 5 or so laps of that race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UG-adctePU

Prost crashed, Patrese spun, Pironi retired, de Cesaris retired, Daly crashed, Patrese restarted and won.

Patrese restarted illegally, but somehow nobody noticed at the time :lol:

In other words, it should have been a Lotus 1-2.

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Jul 2010, 17:13

coops wrote:
East Londoner wrote:I forgot about the 1999 European Grand Prix. I can't watch the last laps of it because I feel so sorry for poor Badoer.

It choked me at the time, although I was chuffed for Herbert. I dont think I've ever seen a better example of just how much it meant to a driver to get a point (and a possible drive for next season). It was so unfair. Didnt Minardi get a point with Gene?

I believe Gene was promoted up to 6th place when Badoer retired, which became 5th if I'm correct after Villeneuve's BAR invetiably broke down as per the norm, before being passed by the recovering Mika Hakkinen. Gene held off Irvine to take Minardi's first point in nearly 4 years.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Jul 2010, 17:15

kostas22 wrote:
shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Wasn't there like 6 or 7 guys in contention for the win in the final 5 or so laps of that race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UG-adctePU

Prost crashed, Patrese spun, Pironi retired, de Cesaris retired, Daly crashed, Patrese restarted and won.

Patrese restarted illegally, but somehow nobody noticed at the time

In other words, it should have been a Lotus 1-2.

And a Brian Henton podium possibly?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 17 Jul 2010, 19:28

shinji wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
shinji wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UG-adctePU

Prost crashed, Patrese spun, Pironi retired, de Cesaris retired, Daly crashed, Patrese restarted and won.

Patrese restarted illegally, but somehow nobody noticed at the time

In other words, it should have been a Lotus 1-2.

And a Brian Henton podium possibly?

Nope, Patrese, had he retired after his spin. Henton was too many laps down.
If he was disqualified Pironi would have taken the podium despite running out of gas.

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 17 Jul 2010, 22:58

tommykl wrote:To be complete, Daly didn't retire directly because of the crash.
His car had no front or back wing, which meant he had to drive quite slowly, effectively drowning the electric system.

One account I've got states that when he spun and knocked the rear wing off, he also broke the gearbox casing, and the gearbox siezed up when all the oil had drained out.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 18 Jul 2010, 14:13

Pieman wrote:
tommykl wrote:To be complete, Daly didn't retire directly because of the crash.
His car had no front or back wing, which meant he had to drive quite slowly, effectively drowning the electric system.

One account I've got states that when he spun and knocked the rear wing off, he also broke the gearbox casing, and the gearbox siezed up when all the oil had drained out.

A litany of disaster, conspiring to prevent a great Dundrumian from winning a race. Damn Williams/rain/lack of talent.

1994 Japanese GP was flooded, had crashes by Noda and Inoue along with many others, was split into two parts and raced on aggregate, as a result of which there was a weird time based battle for the lead between Schumacher and Hill.

2006 Hungarian had a podium of Button/de la Rosa/Heidfeld, which was weirder at the time. Schumacher was flailing around on the wrong tyres at the end, causing several overtakes, and there were many others throughout as rain made for an exciting race at the Hungaroring for once.

2005 US GP of course had rejects doing well, but let's leave it there.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Jul 2010, 14:49

I really liked the 1998 Japan GP! Much happended there!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 18 Jul 2010, 18:10

I raise the 1994 German Grand Prix:

-Two multiple collisions at the start which took over 10 cars out of the race (and yet it wasn't red-flagged).
-First Ferrari win after 4 years.
-Ligier scoring an unpredictable 2-3, which unrejectified Olivier Panis.
-Verstappen's famous fire in the pitlane.
-Katayama starting 5th, running 2nd during the opening lap, retiring from 3rd.
-Last ever points for Larrousse.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 18 Jul 2010, 18:37

One thing I love about 1994 German GP was how much teams were having double glory or disappointment

- Ligier 2nd and 3rd
- Arrows 4th and 5th
- Larrousse 6th and 7th

- Lotus, Jordan, Minardi and Sauber both cars out on the first lap
- Simteks retiring within few laps of each other
- One Tyrrell was out on the first lap and other was the first post-first lap casualty
- Both Williamses pitted after first lap
- Both Benettons retired, not many laps between
- One McLaren retired on the first lap, other had a spin and retired later
- Pacifics DNQ

Only team with real mixed fortunes was Ferrari, as Berger won and Alesi retired on the first lap.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 18 Jul 2010, 19:11

I nominate the 1995 Australian Grand Prix, seeing as the race had these events and features:

-Gianni Morbidelli finishing on the podium and exiting reject status by doing so
-Minardi and Pedro Lamy scoring a point
-Damon Hill winning by 2 laps, such was the attrition

Then you consider the havoc the pitlane wreaked that race. The pitlane:

-Saw David Coulthard crash in to the pitlane wall upon entry, and led to the resultant commentary being part of the F1 Rejects theme music
-Saw Roberto Moreno spin on entyr to the pitlane before recovering. The sheer fact it was Moreno in a Forti makes it notable
-Saw Mark Blundell take out Martin Brundle when Blundell slowed for the pits, causing Brundle to crash out.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 18 Jul 2010, 20:43

1995 Canadian Grand Prix

Just because Jean Alesi won, and a double podium for Jordan.

watka · Post by **watka** » 18 Jul 2010, 21:45

1997 Austrian GP:

Jarno Trulli in his second race for Prost qualifying 3rd and leading.
Shinji Nakano running in 4th or 5th (can't quite remember) before his engine blew.
Jan Magnussen qualifying in 6th for Stewart.
Alesi slamming into the side of Irvine.
Damon Hill qualifying and finishing cruelly in 7th in the crapbox Arrows.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 19 Jul 2010, 19:34

Debaser wrote:I nominate the 1995 Australian Grand Prix, seeing as the race had these events and features:

-Gianni Morbidelli finishing on the podium and exiting reject status by doing so
-Minardi and Pedro Lamy scoring a point
-Damon Hill winning by 2 laps, such was the attrition

Then you consider the havoc the pitlane wreaked that race. The pitlane:

-Saw David Coulthard crash in to the pitlane wall upon entry, and led to the resultant commentary being part of the F1 Rejects theme music
-Saw Roberto Moreno spin on entyr to the pitlane before recovering. The sheer fact it was Moreno in a Forti makes it notable
-Saw Mark Blundell take out Martin Brundle when Blundell slowed for the pits, causing Brundle to crash out.

Plus Panis crawling to the finish in a car that was the F1 equivalent of that volcano in Iceland!

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 19 Jul 2010, 20:06

1996 Monaco Grand Prix

Wet race and schumacher out on first lap...quite a few accidents only 4 finishers and Panis wins........and The sight of Schumachers helmet in a Mclaren(DC had borrowed schumachers spare lid)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 20 Jul 2010, 08:19

Does this prove a market for downloads of individual races from iTunes/Amazon/etc.?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 20 Jul 2010, 11:13

dr-baker wrote:Does this prove a market for downloads of individual races from iTunes/Amazon/etc.?

Well, I nearly started crying when I saw old Gaelic Football matches from the '70s and '80s for €10 in HMV. If GAA can do it with all it's tiny fanbase and ineptness, why can't F1?

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 20 Jul 2010, 11:42

shinji wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Does this prove a market for downloads of individual races from iTunes/Amazon/etc.?

Well, I nearly started crying when I saw old Gaelic Football matches from the '70s and '80s for €10 in HMV. If GAA can do it with all it's tiny fanbase and ineptness, why can't F1?

Bernie would argue you got the season review videos. But your right! As it stands I can only watch the highlights for pre-selected races, and I am one of the lucky ones! (Being in the UK) Bernie is being far too protective of the brand (If that is the right term)

SDHammer · Post by **SDHammer** » 20 Jul 2010, 13:25

I nominate 1989 Australian GP.

It had the following classic elements
Rain
Prost retiring in protest at the conditions
EuroBrun
Senna trying to use his McLaren to mount Magnets Brabham.
One Dallara driver smacking the top of the cockpit in disgust after crashes backwards into the barrier.
oh yes and Eurobruns special paint job.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 20 Jul 2010, 16:44

About a market for single race purchases, I agree, I think there would be a high demand for the all time classics, maybe if they made them part of a series? A bit like a music compilation album, where you could buy the whole bundle for £x or individual one sfor a fraction of the price.

Collieafc wrote:Bernie would argue you got the season review videos. But your right! As it stands I can only watch the highlights for pre-selected races, and I am one of the lucky ones! (Being in the UK) Bernie is being far too protective of the brand (If that is the right term)

Well there's always...*ahem*...torrents...

I've got the whole of the 1980s reviews thanks to that wonderful piece of law bending!

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 21 Jul 2010, 08:31

AndreaModa wrote:About a market for single race purchases, I agree, I think there would be a high demand for the all time classics, maybe if they made them part of a series? A bit like a music compilation album, where you could buy the whole bundle for £x or individual one sfor a fraction of the price.

Collieafc wrote:Bernie would argue you got the season review videos. But your right! As it stands I can only watch the highlights for pre-selected races, and I am one of the lucky ones! (Being in the UK) Bernie is being far too protective of the brand (If that is the right term)

Well there's always...*ahem*...torrents...

I've got the whole of the 1980s reviews thanks to that wonderful piece of law bending!

Torrents indeed. I just got the entirety of the 1970's reviews!

(on a sidenote: I don't think any decade had more techical innovation than seveties. looking at the cars from 1970 and then lookin at the cars from 1980... It's hard to say they even belong to the same series)

Instant Mash · Post by **Instant Mash** » 21 Jul 2010, 10:46

The obvious 1984 Monaco GP hahaha.

beetleman64 · Post by **beetleman64** » 21 Jul 2010, 23:27

Brazil 03, Belgium 98, Monaco 82 & 96, Australia 94 & 06, Canada 98 & 07

It seems that certain races have a big chance of being mad but others (Bahrain, China) don't

Post by **Londoner** » 22 Jul 2010, 07:21

Just realised, 3 years ago today was the mad first 4 laps of the 2007 European GP. Two words: WINKELHOCK LEADS! Who knows how far in front he could have got had they not red-flagged it.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 22 Jul 2010, 07:44

1989 Canadian GP has to be there

- Johnny Herbert did not qualify in a Benetton
- Cars from 18 teams qualified for the race (McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Dallara, Minardi, Arrows, Tyrrell and March got two cars in)
- Variable weather
- Nigel Mansell and Alessandro Nannini pit for slicks following warm-up lap, then continue to the track straight away, theoretically being two leaders at that point, they were disqualified.
- Stefan Johansson left the pits with airgun still attached, he took the whole thing with him to the track.
- Derek Warwick in Arrows leading the race
- Nicola Larini in Osella being in 3rd at one point
- Roberto Moreno loosing wheel
- Ayrton Senna retiring from the lead with few laps to go
- Andrea de Cesaris scoring podium for Dallara
- Jonathan Palmer setting fastest lap

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:10

as i was really starting to watch in 1998, you can already guess the belgian GP made an impact on me.

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:19

I've posted about Belgium '98 before on here - I was about 12 years old, and I remember we were at a rather posh garden party at a friend of my dad's place. There was no-one else there of my age so I was bored out of my head until I remembered there was a GP that weekend, so I sneaked off into the lounge and put the TV on. I'd missed the lap one pileup, but when I saw the replays and the race order (plus the weather) I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Eventually word got out to the posh folks in the garden, and as the race went on more and more of them left the party and joined me in front of the TV - and we all went ballistic when Schumacher pole-axed Coulthard and himself! It still amuses me to think of being sat there with all these people who I didn't really know, probably few of whom had any interest in F1 - and we all cheered when Damon Hill won it!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 22 Jul 2010, 22:45

Pieman wrote:I've posted about Belgium '98 before on here - I was about 12 years old, and I remember we were at a rather posh garden party at a friend of my dad's place. There was no-one else there of my age so I was bored out of my head until I remembered there was a GP that weekend, so I sneaked off into the lounge and put the TV on. I'd missed the lap one pileup, but when I saw the replays and the race order (plus the weather) I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Eventually word got out to the posh folks in the garden, and as the race went on more and more of them left the party and joined me in front of the TV - and we all went ballistic when Schumacher pole-axed Coulthard and himself! It still amuses me to think of being sat there with all these people who I didn't really know, probably few of whom had any interest in F1 - and we all cheered when Damon Hill won it!

You know that's quite funny because at that time I would have been about 8, and myself my immediate family and my gran were in Wales for some reason only god knows. Anyway we had stopped in a layby to eat some lunch and listened to the race on the radio from the car, and I was so happy when Hill won, I was just gutted I wasn't able to see it on TV. I guess because it truly was an epic race (and the fact Hill won of course

) is the reason why I can remember that occasion, and I imagine the same is for you Pieman too.

Gawd...such good times...!

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 24 Jul 2010, 11:00

I remember that, after watching the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix (1998 was the first season I followed F1), I thought that sort of pileups were quite common in F1. Needless to say I was somewhat disappointed with the lack of them in subsequent seasons. (I even lost interest in F1 for a while from 2001-2002, although whether this is related, I do not know...)

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 24 Jul 2010, 12:08

Waris wrote:I remember that, after watching the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix (1998 was the first season I followed F1), I thought that sort of pileups were quite common in F1. Needless to say I was somewhat disappointed with the lack of them in subsequent seasons. (I even lost interest in F1 for a while from 2001-2002, although whether this is related, I do not know...)

2002 was such a crap season, it's understandable.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 24 Jul 2010, 22:05

I have very fond memories of both Belgium 1998 and Brazil 2003. Both shining examples of what a crazy, spectacular, dramatic, random, failtastic-yet-splendiferous sport F1 can be. Saw both of them in full from my living room with my family, with a book (can't remember the title) for Belgium and the then-current edition of F1 Magazine for Brazil.

I have Brazil 2003 but not Belgium 1998 - and yes, I think there would be a market for races in full (perhaps £1 per race, with an 80/20 split between FOM and whichever broadcaster did the original pre-race, commentary and post-race analysis).