Grand Prix Rejects

I'm not necessarily asking who is the best driver ever to drive for Minardi, because most would say that is Fernando Alonso hands down. What I am asking is who was the best driver whilst driving for Minardi.

Yes, I think Alonso was good during his time at Minardi, especially considering his age at the time. However, results clearly show Pierluigi Martini as the top dog. He was before my time, so I can't really comment on him, what's everyone's opinion though?

2 other drivers I'd through in from what I know/vaguely remember would be Pedro Lamy and Marc Gene. I think most people would agree that Lamy did a good job, but Gene doesn't get mentioned much. He was solid and had a great 1999 season, although he didn't get a chance with another team and had an average 2000.

Just my 2 cents.

Statistically, Martini wins hands down, being both the longest-serving and highest points-scoring driver in the team's history. He:
- scored the team's first point at Detroit in 1988
- led the race for a single lap in Portugal 1989, the only lap in the lead in the team's history
- achieved the team's only front-row start in Phoenix 1990
- achieved the team's best-ever race finishes, with 4th placings at the 1991 San Marino and Portuguese GPs (Christian Fittipaldi managed the same result at the 1993 South African GP).

I have a soft spot for him and followed him avidly throughout his career - there's a great article on him in the "Reject Centrale" section of the website if you get the chance to have a read, although I can't lay claim to writing it . The 1989 and 1991 seasons were probably Martini's best, and the team's continual improvement towards the back-end of the 1989 season saw him regularly feature in the top-six on the grid in the final races of the season, which carried through into the opening race of the 1990 season, where he achieved the team's only front-row start. Admittedly, this was helped by the performance of the Pirelli qualifying tyres and the entire grid was very mixed up as a result.

The 1991 season was meant to be a watershed year for Minardi - the M191 was equipped with a Ferrari customer engine (the first time Ferrari had provided a customer engine to another team) and it's Aldo Costa designed chassis was predicted to cause a few surprises with Martini and Gianni Morbidelli at the wheel. As ever, however, reliability was a concern, and while Martini managed 11th in the Driver's Championship with his two 4th placings in the season, he lost out on several more points-scoring opportunities, notably in Phoenix and Japan (he harried Michael Schumacher throughout the race before retiring in the latter). Morbidelli - Ferrari's test driver, and the replacement for Alain Prost at the washed-out Australian GP - also had a strong season, and looked set for points in Magny Cours until tangling with one of the Benetton's at the hairpin.

No other driver comes close to Martini, statistically. As is always the case with the Minardi team and their continual lack of resources, it's difficult to gauge the performance of one driver to another, as it really comes down to the quality of the car, the overall package, and the team's budget.

Marc Gene was another case in point. Blighted by a lack of funding and a massive F3000 crash, he quit racing to concentrate on his Economics degree and returned again to racing under the guidance of Adrian Campos (another former Minardi driver) in the maiden series of what is now known as the Formula Nissan series. He blitzed the opposition to take the title and won a test drive with the Minardi team. Telefonica sponsorship helped him into the team, and while many viewed his appointment sceptically (particularly after the disastrous 1998 season of Estaban Tuero), he acquitted himself well against team-mate Luca Badoer and drove commendably in spite of the team's limited resources and woefully underpowered engine. He regularly mixed it with the Arrows drivers, and qualified a brilliant 15th at Hockenheim - a track not viewed to bode well for the team given it's requirement for horsepower. His 6th place at the Nurburgring earned the team its first points in 4 seasons and ensure the team would consign BAR to an embarrassing last place in the Constructors' Championship. His 2000 season went unrewarded, and while the team improved in its raw pace, its ancient and overweight Ford/Fondmetal engine was well down on power relative to its competitors. He often struggled in qualifying, but always raced hard and the team did well to place itself ahead of Prost on countback.

Frank Williams was wise enough to recognise Gene's talents, and he was duly rewarded with a multi-year test driver contract from 2001 and became the first Spanish F1 driver to not only drive for a front-running team but also be paid a retainer by an F1 team for his services instead of having to procure sponsorship for the privilege. His efforts were again rewarded with a stand-in drive at the 2003 Italian GP, where he led the race and earned 5th place at the flag-fall, thereby deservedly escaping Reject status. He again deputised for the team at the 2004 French and British GPs, but the Walrus-nosed Williams was operating at its worst performance at this point in the season, and he was quietly dropped in favour of Antonio "Pizza Man" Pizzonia for the remaining races until Ralf Schumacher recovered from his broken neck.

Williams made a massive blunder in releasing him at the end of the season (if ever there was a need for an experienced Michelin tyre tester heading into the 2005 season, then this was it), and he moved to Ferrari as their second test driver - a role he continues to occupy until this day. He has raced with great success driving for the factory Peugeot squad at Le Mans, and was cruelly robbed of a Le Mans 24Hr win and the title by the scarecest of margins.

Minardi was typically a stepping-stone team for younger talent, and Gian Carlo Minardi was quite the talent-spotter. There are many other Minardi luminaries who achieved great success after their tenure at the team, and whose efforts and talent deserve acknowledgement: Alessandro Nannini, Christian Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, Pedro Lamy, Giancarlo Fisichella, Jarno Trulli, Fernando Alonso, Mark Webber to name but a few.

I have an undying love for the Minardi team, and as delighted as I am to see it survive and succeed under the guise of Scuderia Toro Rosso, I miss its involvement in F1 as one of F1's truly independent teams. They were a wonderful team and should never be forgotten.

Wow mate, thanks for taking the time out to write that, I'll definitely check out the Martini article.

As for Gene, I agree that he was unfortunate to be dropped for Pizzonia. Gene was never a spectacular driver, but at that time Williams needed stability, which Gene was far more apt at giving them. I think his test position at Ferrari is a testament to his pace and stability as a driver.

minrdi wrote:Statistically, Martini wins hands down, being both the longest-serving and highest points-scoring driver in the team's history.

I couldn't agree more. He also lead the fantastic 5-6 result for Minardi in the 1989 British GP that saved the team from being relegated to pre-qualifying.

The second best driver, IMO, would be Christian Fittipaldi, though I regard him as a schmuck. He did a remarkable race in the 1993 South African GP ending in 4th.

rffp wrote:The second best driver, IMO, would be Christian Fittipaldi, though I regard him as a schmuck. He did a remarkable race in the 1993 South African GP ending in 4th.

And has the most spectacular racefinish ever to his name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv2kxImg4vc

DonTirri wrote:And has the most spectacular racefinish ever to his name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv2kxImg4vc

Hehehe! Quite true!
Christian had his share of freak accidents in his career.

watka wrote:Wow mate, thanks for taking the time out to write that, I'll definitely check out the Martini article.

You're most welcome - let's just say I have a healthy obsession about the team!

DonTirri wrote: And has the most spectacular racefinish ever to his name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv2kxImg4vc

I have his crash with Martini as my avatar!

Apparently Fittipaldi's mother was watching from the pit wall and not surprisingly fainted when he went hurtling along the main straight upside down. It's incredible that he landed right-side up and still had the momentum to cross the finish line, and was uninjured!

It has to be Martini in 1991. Two fourths... that's insanity for Minardi.

Perluigi Martini was almost certainly the most successful but since this is about the best ever (Taking subjectivity into account).... I would say Marc Gene and perhaps Marc Gene & Luca Badoer 1999 was the best partnership that minardi have had in their most recent past.

Niallllll wrote:Perluigi Martini was almost certainly the most successful but since this is about the best ever (Taking subjectivity into account).... I would say Marc Gene and perhaps Marc Gene & Luca Badoer 1999 was the best partnership that minardi have had in their most recent past.

For best partnership, I'd say it's a coin toss between Gene and Badoer in 1999 and Lamy and Fisichella in 1996.

What about Fittipaldi and Barbazza?

I think Fittipaldi/Martini partnership was the best, this was between British and Portuguese GPs in 1993. Barbazza wasn't that good although he scored points twice.

If we look careers drivers had best partnership was Martini&Alboreto but Alboreto (RIP) was past his best already.

Well, I'm biased obviously!

But leaving aside my F1 hero, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Alessandro Nannini. OK, he couldn't get any points but that was mainly because the car never made it to the finish as the engine always grenaded itself or various bits fell off, but when it was on the track he drove the balls off it and was more competitive than the car deserved more often than not.

OK im odd and have stange opinions, despite they had changed their name and owner to me they are still minardi deep down in their soul, so i say Vettel.....

Alessandro Nannini for me

He always put in decent performances in the awful M186 & M187 cars despite their chronic reliability from the Motori-Moderni motors. He overshadowed deCesaris in 1986 & the poor Campos in 87..

Picked up by Benetton in 88 I thought he was destined for the top & certainly had the pace. I remember him valiantly holding Senna off at Hockenheim in 1990 with worn tyres & "only" V8 power...

Such a shame his helicopter accident ended his F1 career when he was at his prime...

Common Guys this ones easy!
Chanoch Nissany
Duh!

I love Minardi with all of my heart to this day, and Formula 1 has never been the same since Minardi left (I don't find any solace in Toro Rosso, to me it's just a marketing exercise for the boss of the Red Bull energy drinks company, and all that remains of Minardi are a few mechanics and the factory at Faenza). I keep hoping that Minardi will come back if the proposals for making Formula 1 cheaper ever come into being, but it's probably a forlorn hope.

Anyway, as to the drivers, I agree that Pierluigi Martini was easily the best driver whilst driving for Minardi in statistical terms, and I think the results will show that Christian Fittipaldi was the next best driver, and these two certainly made for a solid pairing in the latter half of 1993, although I don't think they liked each other very much (Fittipaldi wasn't very happy with Martini after that incident at Monza).

I also feel that Fabrizio Barbazza did a pretty solid job in the few races he contested, while Marc Gené and Luca Badoer were good performers too. Sadly, I think we will most likely always remember Badoer for Nurburgring 1999, and what could have been.....

It's also pleasing to see Alessandro Nannini get a mention, as the 1986 and 1987 Minardi cars were awfully unreliable, but Nannini did put in some impressive performances, according to that which I have read, and he certainly put De Cesaris and Campos firmly in the shade.

It's also worth remembering Luis Perez Sala's contribution to the team, since when he followed Martini over the line in the British Grand Prix of 1989, he made sure, that with both cars scoring points, Minardi didn't have to pre-qualify in 1989, which was very important, and it was the only time in a full field (i.e. excluding the farcical 2005 US Grand Prix) that both Minardis finished in the points at the same race.

I'm surprised that no-one's mentioned the Jos Verstappen-Justin Wilson pairing of 2003: an experienced, competent driver and an F3000 champion who Paul Stoddart described as Minardi's best. Jos even had a theoretical chance of winning that year's Brazilian GP, but he was unfortunately one of the Turn 3 victims. Sadly the team failed to score a point that year, with Verstappen's best finish a ninth position in Montreal.

midgrid wrote:I'm surprised that no-one's mentioned the Jos Verstappen-Justin Wilson pairing of 2003: an experienced, competent driver and an F3000 champion who Paul Stoddart described as Minardi's best. Jos even had a theoretical chance of winning that year's Brazilian GP, but he was unfortunately one of the Turn 3 victims. Sadly the team failed to score a point that year, with Verstappen's best finish a ninth position in Montreal.

Yeah, I remember "Jos the Boss" doing a half decent job in the Minardi, and even more so when he was at Arrows. Justin Wilson though, I never rated him.

watka wrote:Yeah, I remember "Jos the Boss" doing a half decent job in the Minardi, and even more so when he was at Arrows. Justin Wilson though, I never rated him.

Wilson has the similar problem that Kubica and Wurz had in that he is a tall man and absolutely massive when compared to other F1 drivers.

Wilson has the similar problem that Kubica and Wurz had in that he is a tall man and absolutely massive when compared to other F1 drivers. {RejectSteve - previous comment}

This is true. When Jordan didn't hire him for 2002, the reason they gave was that Justin was too tall to fit into the cockpit. The cynical would suggest that the influence of Honda may have been more important, but the cockpits are only required to accommodate drivers up to 1.9m tall and Justin was exactly that height. As a result, it was always marginal to fit him into an F1 car. It's a pity because he was pretty good once he finally managed to get onto the track. I still think Jaguar would have been better off with Justin rather than Christian Klien...

Ralph Firman was pretty tall though wasn't he? Don't remember EJ having too many qualms about squeezing him in!!

watka wrote:

midgrid wrote:I'm surprised that no-one's mentioned the Jos Verstappen-Justin Wilson pairing of 2003: an experienced, competent driver and an F3000 champion who Paul Stoddart described as Minardi's best. Jos even had a theoretical chance of winning that year's Brazilian GP, but he was unfortunately one of the Turn 3 victims. Sadly the team failed to score a point that year, with Verstappen's best finish a ninth position in Montreal.

Yeah, I remember "Jos the Boss" doing a half decent job in the Minardi, and even more so when he was at Arrows. Justin Wilson though, I never rated him.

Verstappen went on the grid in Brazil 2003 ready to win the race. I know a guy who worked for Minardi at the time and they basically gambled that Charlie Whiting wasn't going to allow the race to run to full distance, so they were ready to do the race non-stop. He was ahead of Fisichella for a long time but he spun out of the race. My mate is adamant that he would have won it, but I guess we'll never know!

Faustus wrote:Verstappen went on the grid in Brazil 2003 ready to win the race. I know a guy who worked for Minardi at the time and they basically gambled that Charlie Whiting wasn't going to allow the race to run to full distance, so they were ready to do the race non-stop. He was ahead of Fisichella for a long time but he spun out of the race. My mate is adamant that he would have won it, but I guess we'll never know!

Paul Stoddart was adamant that Verstappen would have won the race too, hence why he threw his headphones across the garage on seeing Jos spin out of the race. I was in Spain for the first half of 2003, so I was watching that race on Spanish television, and their commentators really didn't know what was happening in that race.....

I'd completely forgotten Verstappen drove for minardi in 2003......

Ralph Firman was pretty tall though wasn't he? Don't remember EJ having too many qualms about squeezing him in!! {Barbazza - 4 comments ago}

By that point EJ had been embarrassed enough by the Wilson affair to not try the same excuse twice. In addition, Ralf Firman was onlt 6ft 1in, a whole 9cm shorter. Also, Honda was no longer a factor, so Jordan could not possibly have thought that they would get any requests from them to have the 5ft 2in Takuma Sato in the car instead.

Verstappen went on the grid in Brazil 2003 ready to win the race. I know a guy who worked for Minardi at the time and they basically gambled that Charlie Whiting wasn't going to allow the race to run to full distance, so they were ready to do the race non-stop. He was ahead of Fisichella for a long time but he spun out of the race. My mate is adamant that he would have won it, but I guess we'll never know! {Faustus - 4 comments ago}

Verstappen had successfully defended his position from Fisichella for a few laps before spinning off and the two were on the same strategy. Both of them knew that it was likely to be the only time all season that they'd be that high up the order, so there was no way Giancarlo was going to try anything silly to get past Jos. For that matter, Paul Stoddart said in the December 2005 edition of F1 Racing that Giancarlo told him that if it had been the last lap and he'd been second behind Jos, he wouldn't have gone anywhere near it because of what Minardi meant to him. I think your mate has a point.

The one thing that might have stopped Jos from winning had he completed the race is that the Minardi would have almost certainly needed to stop before the Jordan because it fuelled seven laps earlier. Even if the Minardi's fuel tank was larger and the car/driver combination more fuel-efficient, it would have left a short window where it could have been defeated had an incident occurred at the wrong moment. This paragraph is also known as straw-clutching.

Verstappen as always performed admirably with minardi in 2003. I can always remember the pre qualifying pole he got at magny cours....

Alianora La Canta wrote:Verstappen went on the grid in Brazil 2003 ready to win the race. I know a guy who worked for Minardi at the time and they basically gambled that Charlie Whiting wasn't going to allow the race to run to full distance, so they were ready to do the race non-stop. He was ahead of Fisichella for a long time but he spun out of the race. My mate is adamant that he would have won it, but I guess we'll never know! {Faustus - 4 comments ago}

Verstappen had successfully defended his position from Fisichella for a few laps before spinning off and the two were on the same strategy. Both of them knew that it was likely to be the only time all season that they'd be that high up the order, so there was no way Giancarlo was going to try anything silly to get past Jos. For that matter, Paul Stoddart said in the December 2005 edition of F1 Racing that Giancarlo told him that if it had been the last lap and he'd been second behind Jos, he wouldn't have gone anywhere near it because of what Minardi meant to him. I think your mate has a point.

The one thing that might have stopped Jos from winning had he completed the race is that the Minardi would have almost certainly needed to stop before the Jordan because it fuelled seven laps earlier. Even if the Minardi's fuel tank was larger and the car/driver combination more fuel-efficient, it would have left a short window where it could have been defeated had an incident occurred at the wrong moment. This paragraph is also known as straw-clutching.

I've got to have a look for that issue of F1 Racing on eBay. I haven't bought F1 Racing in many years. Thanks for bringing it to my attention Alianora La Canta!