The Marcus Grönholm Rally Thread

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 19 Jan 2012, 03:26

kostas22 wrote:Myrvold will not be happy.

So in other words, very little has changed at the M-Sport B-Team.

Nah, I'm one of the many Norwegians that doesn't like Mads, however, he didn't get to race Monte Carlo, which, actually pleases me very much!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Jan 2012, 11:16

Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Hopefully Loeb & Co. follow suit and Ogier ends up winning despite driving an S2000 Fabia

It's the ultimate shame for Hirvonen that he's being beaten by Ogier anyway

He's come back in front of Ogier. 13 seconds. In an official Citroen. Against a Skoda Fabia S2000. Yep, still humiliation.

If the difference between Hirvonen and Loeb is anything to go by (and taking into account that Hirvonen has never driven a Citroen in anger), Ford was most definitely the best car last year. And the year before. And... Well, you get the idea.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 19 Jan 2012, 11:30

DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Hopefully Loeb & Co. follow suit and Ogier ends up winning despite driving an S2000 Fabia

It's the ultimate shame for Hirvonen that he's being beaten by Ogier anyway

He's come back in front of Ogier. 13 seconds. In an official Citroen. Against a Skoda Fabia S2000. Yep, still humiliation.

If the difference between Hirvonen and Loeb is anything to go by (and taking into account that Hirvonen has never driven a Citroen in anger), Ford was most definitely the best car last year. And the year before. And... Well, you get the idea.

Which means the only conclusion we can come to is that we're not giving Loeb the credit he deserves.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Jan 2012, 11:37

DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Hopefully Loeb & Co. follow suit and Ogier ends up winning despite driving an S2000 Fabia

It's the ultimate shame for Hirvonen that he's being beaten by Ogier anyway

He's come back in front of Ogier. 13 seconds. In an official Citroen. Against a Skoda Fabia S2000. Yep, still humiliation.

If the difference between Hirvonen and Loeb is anything to go by (and taking into account that Hirvonen has never driven a Citroen in anger), Ford was most definitely the best car last year. And the year before. And... Well, you get the idea.

I disagree. The DS3 was slightly superior. It's just Hirvonen is utterly f*cking rubbish, as I have considered him to be since 2004. While driving for team of the world drivers champion, Solberg won five times while Hirvonen failed to make the podium once. I never expected him to become world champion after that.

Meanwhile I also feel vindicated for saying Ogier is the key driver to the future of the WRC a year or so back - Loeb's natural successor. He is driving that Skoda to its limit.

Henning Solberg cannot catch a break. Broken diff yesterday, a broken engine today.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Jan 2012, 11:44

kostas22 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:It's the ultimate shame for Hirvonen that he's being beaten by Ogier anyway

He's come back in front of Ogier. 13 seconds. In an official Citroen. Against a Skoda Fabia S2000. Yep, still humiliation.

If the difference between Hirvonen and Loeb is anything to go by (and taking into account that Hirvonen has never driven a Citroen in anger), Ford was most definitely the best car last year. And the year before. And... Well, you get the idea.

I disagree. The DS3 was slightly superior. It's just Hirvonen is utterly f*cking rubbish, as I have considered him to be since 2004. While driving for team of the world drivers champion, Solberg won five times while Hirvonen failed to make the podium once. I never expected him to become world champion after that.

It was Hirvonen who led Ford's championship hopes since a few years now. And he came so close on a few occasions. Closer than the 3 minutes he already has to Loeb. Granted, Latvala would have been the main guy there if he wasn't so busy crashing out, but still it says something about the car.

MinardiFan95 · Post by **MinardiFan95** » 19 Jan 2012, 13:11

Day 1 highlights for those of us who don't get WRC coverage on TV anymore (i.e. don't have Eurosport).
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpU3faRRYh8
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrz-jMaMHY8

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Jan 2012, 16:59

DanielPT wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:He's come back in front of Ogier. 13 seconds. In an official Citroen. Against a Skoda Fabia S2000. Yep, still humiliation.

If the difference between Hirvonen and Loeb is anything to go by (and taking into account that Hirvonen has never driven a Citroen in anger), Ford was most definitely the best car last year. And the year before. And... Well, you get the idea.

I disagree. The DS3 was slightly superior. It's just Hirvonen is utterly f*cking rubbish, as I have considered him to be since 2004. While driving for team of the world drivers champion, Solberg won five times while Hirvonen failed to make the podium once. I never expected him to become world champion after that.

It was Hirvonen who led Ford's championship hopes since a few years now. And he came so close on a few occasions. Closer than the 3 minutes he already has to Loeb. Granted, Latvala would have been the main guy there if he wasn't so busy crashing out, but still it says something about the car.

The old spec Focus was a great car. The new Fiesta RS, not so much.

On another note, Delecour is literally on fire. His Ford is burning. And Ogier has binned it...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Jan 2012, 17:03

I say that further humiliation could be inflicted in Hirvonen. Losing his place to M-Sport Novikov.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Jan 2012, 00:48

Loeb wins the Monte, and Solberg gets a suspended ban

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Jan 2012, 00:57

Wizzie wrote:Loeb wins the Monte, and Solberg gets a suspended ban

You're taking juicing your post count to the exteme now... :roll:

It's supposed to be about offering crituque not posting endless links!

Sweden, snow. Citroen may actually have a shot at this one with Hirvonen on the team instead of two tarmac specialists. But of course, I like roughly 99.9% of rally fans across the globe, will be urging on Solberg to finally break his 5 year duck.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Jan 2012, 01:01

kostas22 wrote:Sweden, snow. Citroen may actually have a shot at this one with Hirvonen on the team instead of two tarmac specialists. But of course, I like roughly 99.9% of rally fans across the globe, will be urging on Solberg to finally break his 5 year duck.

He better not go too fast off the stage though otherwise he might have that win taken away from him :lol:

And can someone explain to me why Delecour was given the M-Sport seat at Monte Carlo?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Jan 2012, 02:55

Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:And can someone explain to me why Delecour was given the M-Sport seat at Monte Carlo?

Because Delecour is awesome? And lets face it, he did a far better job than Wilson or (Henning) Solberg...
But mostly the first part.
OK, but in reality, he had money from Romaina of all places to get his drive. and, as they say; Form is temporary, but class is permanent.

The second Mini will not be as big a waste of space as it was this weekend. I can definitely see Patrik Sandell having an edge on Sordo and causing all sorts of trouble for the Citroens and Fords.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 23 Jan 2012, 05:18

Okay, somehow I'm not allowed to post what I really wrote here. I just get a MySQL error... Oh, and I think I know why, writing the name of the pole with the right letters...

Wilson and Solberg is in a third Ford team. 'Go Fast Energy World Rally Team', they are not driving for manufacturer points though.

The M-Sport entry for Delecour, was a non-point entry, just like Michal Solowow will be in Sweden. Novikov and Tanak is the official M-sport drivers. I do think that third M-sport is just like the second Mini, a car for people to buy a seat in, just to finance some of the other work.
I have absolutely no idea where Mads Østberg fits in in that though.
Sandell will be interesting, but with former STCC, now TTA driver Richard Göransson driving the Mini WRC in Sweden this weekend, and Sandell not being on the entry list for either Rally Elverum [weeey, my hometown] or Rally Finnskog the weekend before Rally Sweden - a rally where drivers such as Mads Østberg, Andreas Mikkelsen, Martin Prokop, Craig Breen and Mikko Hirvonen is entered. I do think Sandells lack of WRC experience will hurt him.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Jan 2012, 17:54

Myrvold wrote:Sandell will be interesting, but with former STCC, now TTA driver Richard Göransson driving the Mini WRC in Sweden this weekend, and Sandell not being on the entry list for either Rally Elverum [weeey, my hometown] or Rally Finnskog the weekend before Rally Sweden - a rally where drivers such as Mads Østberg, Andreas Mikkelsen, Martin Prokop, Craig Breen and Mikko Hirvonen is entered. I do think Sandells lack of WRC experience will hurt him.

So you believe Rene Arnoux and not James Hunt? :lol:

Sandell has done good in S2000. I think the fact it's his home even on a surface he likes will outweigh any negative regarding lack of experience with the Mini. Although I do fear he'll be fighting in the Top 5 and then crash.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 24 Jan 2012, 08:05

Loeb to win this year's WDC too, I'm afraid...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 24 Jan 2012, 18:43

Shizuka wrote:Loeb to win this year's WDC too, I'm afraid...

NEVER! I will not give up faith in Solberg now he is in a works car...and the clearly stated number two driver...and even though he hasn't won a rally for over 5 years...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 Jan 2012, 15:35

kostas22 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Loeb to win this year's WDC too, I'm afraid...

NEVER! I will not give up faith in Solberg now he is in a works car...and the clearly stated number two driver...and even though he hasn't won a rally for over 5 years...

If Latvala keeps crashing like this Solberg will be number one in an instant. But I am afraid Shizuka is right. The question is how many races he wins and who besides him will win.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Jan 2012, 01:16

Stage 1 Technology to return for Rally Sweden

Could some normality finally be returning to the WRC?

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 27 Jan 2012, 04:13

Wizzie wrote:Stage 1 Technology to return for Rally Sweden

Could some normality finally be returning to the WRC?

Probably not. They should just ban anyone from competition who's name starts with "Sebastien" unless their last name starts with a "B".

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 27 Jan 2012, 14:03

DOSBoot wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Stage 1 Technology to return for Rally Sweden

Could some normality finally be returning to the WRC?

Probably not. They should just ban anyone from competition who's name starts with "Sebastien" unless their last name starts with a "B".

So...Bourdais and Buemi would swap places with Loeb and Ogier?

This will make my task of writing up WRC reports much easier now that the WRC data feed will return to normal (there was no stage data of any kind available from the WRC media site). As I'm not on location it was hard to know the gaps between Andersson & Breen and what was going in with Michal Kosciuszko (he made some mistakes on later stages but it made zero difference as Louise Cook was such a ridiclously large amount of time behind).

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 27 Jan 2012, 16:42

kostas22 wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Stage 1 Technology to return for Rally Sweden

Could some normality finally be returning to the WRC?

Probably not. They should just ban anyone from competition who's name starts with "Sebastien" unless their last name starts with a "B".

So...Bourdais and Buemi would swap places with Loeb and Ogier?

This will make my task of writing up WRC reports much easier now that the WRC data feed will return to normal (there was no stage data of any kind available from the WRC media site). As I'm not on location it was hard to know the gaps between Andersson & Breen and what was going in with Michal Kosciuszko (he made some mistakes on later stages but it made zero difference as Louise Cook was such a ridiclously large amount of time behind).

Pretty much from any motorsport I mean of course. I hate to see Vettel go the same route Loeb is doing right now. :evil:

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Feb 2012, 18:25

So it looks like this little saga between Prodrive and BMW is about to come to a close finally, with the German manufacturer seemingly getting cold feet and pulling the plug early on a motorsport programme yet again.

BMW set to terminate Prodrive contract to run the Mini WRC team

Whilst it's not actually confirmed yet, and BMW might not yet pull out still, the writing's on the wall as far as I'm concerned. The question now is, how long will the DTM venture last? It's so infuriating, especially seeing as Sordo is doing great things with a car that still hasn't realised its full potential. I wish BMW grew a spine and started committing itself properly to motorsport.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 02 Feb 2012, 19:15

You have to wonder what BMW are expecting, instant championship success? The Minis were impressive last year and this year they look even faster, what more do they want?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Feb 2012, 19:19

IdeFan wrote:You have to wonder what BMW are expecting, instant championship success? The Minis were impressive last year and this year they look even faster, what more do they want?

I am afraid it is nothing like that. It's just that they get bored quite easily since their attention span is very short. What happens to 2 year old kids when they get a new toy?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 02 Feb 2012, 19:28

BMW can get to f**k with a pathetic attitude like that. Are they trying to destory the WRC's reputation even further? They are becoming an unnecessary distraction. If BMW do pull the plug, Prodrive should still look for sponsorship and run the team the way it is now (sorry Kris), win something (Rally Espana comes to mind) and stick two fingers up to BMW. If they run them unbranded it won't make any difference. They can just rebadge them as Prodrive M1 or something to satisfy the change.

Also, headline of the week: CarlosFerreira has been giving Per-Gunnar Andersson advice.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 04 Feb 2012, 00:56

The excrement has hit the fan.

And suddenly, BMW are almost completely vindicated with their decision to pull out.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 04 Feb 2012, 01:12

Bloody hell what a mess!

Back to the 1980s with local directors, dodgy camerawork, and shoddy graphics it is then! :lol:

Not good for the future of the WRC though. How attractive is a sport which can't even get a promoter and global TV coverage? I suspect if something isn't sorted within the next two weeks, we could well see sponsors, and possibly even teams and manufacturers pulling the plug. Dark times indeed for the WRC.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Feb 2012, 02:45

AndreaModa wrote:Bloody hell what a mess!

Back to the 1980s with local directors, dodgy camerawork, and shoddy graphics it is then!

Not good for the future of the WRC though. How attractive is a sport which can't even get a promoter and global TV coverage? I suspect if something isn't sorted within the next two weeks, we could well see sponsors, and possibly even teams and manufacturers pulling the plug. Dark times indeed for the WRC.

If there is a total free for all, we will end up with TV rights being sold for next to nothing at each event. Which can only mean one thing...

WRC REJECTS LIVE PODCAST! :mrgreen:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Feb 2012, 10:38

AndreaModa wrote:Bloody hell what a mess!

Back to the 1980s with local directors, dodgy camerawork, and shoddy graphics it is then!

Not good for the future of the WRC though. How attractive is a sport which can't even get a promoter and global TV coverage? I suspect if something isn't sorted within the next two weeks, we could well see sponsors, and possibly even teams and manufacturers pulling the plug. Dark times indeed for the WRC.

Could argue a manufacturer is already pulling out (albeit for different reasons, I think).

But WRC has never really been the same since Subaru and Mitubishi withdrew at around the time Loeb began his dominance...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Feb 2012, 16:08

dr-baker wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Bloody hell what a mess!

Back to the 1980s with local directors, dodgy camerawork, and shoddy graphics it is then!

Not good for the future of the WRC though. How attractive is a sport which can't even get a promoter and global TV coverage? I suspect if something isn't sorted within the next two weeks, we could well see sponsors, and possibly even teams and manufacturers pulling the plug. Dark times indeed for the WRC.

Could argue a manufacturer is already pulling out (albeit for different reasons, I think).

But WRC has never really been the same since Subaru and Mitubishi withdrew at around the time Loeb began his dominance...

IMO the damage had already been done by the time Subaru left. 2005 was the last season before everything went downhill. Peugeot, Citroen, Mitsubishi, Skoda, all left in one mass exodus. Citroen may have intended to return but the damage was already done.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 04 Feb 2012, 23:48

2005 was the last season of WRC I really cared about

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Feb 2012, 23:52

eurobrun wrote:2005 was the last season of WRC I really cared about

Which is, by no coincidence, the last time Petter Solberg won a WRC event.

I would sell my soul to the devil to see that crazy bastard win a rally again.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Feb 2012, 13:48

With the way things are going, I can easily see this being the last year of the WRC, unless it merges with the IRC...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Feb 2012, 14:07

dr-baker wrote:With the way things are going, I can easily see this being the last year of the WRC, unless it merges with the IRC...

Which is what should have happened last year in my opinion. What's the point of trying to run two conflicting championships that are doing the same thing? It didn't work for AOWR and it hasn't worked for rallying.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 05 Feb 2012, 17:34

Someone forgetting history here? In the 80's Lancia was the only factory team, and they didn't even run all rallies. WRC survived that. Anyway.

Rally Finnskog was finished on Saturday. The top ten was:

A bit explaining: A0 is a "custom class" in Norway for WRC cars (new and old). The old Gr.A cars are running in "A13" in Norway.
N3, is a N4 car, but the Subaru is a "Subaru Cup" car, with H-box and clutch, and some other standard-parts. So the car isn't as fast as a N4 car.
Henning was using the old winter tyres while the rest used the new ones. I have no idea on how the cars compare to eachother then. He was using a 2001 Lancer.
Mikkelsen got a puncture on SS7, and was faster than PG until that point.

Stage Wins:
Mikko Hirvonen: SS 1-4
Mads Østberg: SS 5,6,8
Henning Solberg: SS 7.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Feb 2012, 17:56

Myrvold wrote:Someone forgetting history here? In the 80's Lancia was the only factory team, and they didn't even run all rallies. WRC survived that. Anyway.

Rally Finnskog was finished on Saturday. The top ten was:

1 Hirvonen Finland Citroën DS3 WRC A0 1.02.30.7
2 Solberg Norway Mitsubishi Lancer 6.5 A0 +30.5
3 Østberg Norway Ford Fiesta WRC A0 +49.8
4 Andersson Sweden Proton Satria S2000 A2 +2.56.6
5 Mikkelsen Norway Skoda Fabia S2000 A2 +3.01.7
6 Brynildsen Norway Ford Fiesta WRC A0 +3.02.5
7 Grøndal Norway Subaru Impreza Sti N3 +5.08.1
8 Aasen Norway Ford Fiesta S2000 A2 +5.13.1
9 Kjær Norway Renault Twingo R2 A5 +10.42.6
10 Korsmo Norway Volvo 240 Nasj.10 +11.29.4

A bit explaining: A0 is a "custom class" in Norway for WRC cars (new and old). The old Gr.A cars are running in "A13" in Norway.
N3, is a N4 car, but the Subaru is a "Subaru Cup" car, with H-box and clutch, and some other standard-parts. So the car isn't as fast as a N4 car.
Henning was using the old winter tyres while the rest used the new ones. I have no idea on how the cars compare to eachother then. He was using a 2001 Lancer.
Mikkelsen got a puncture on SS7, and was faster than PG until that point.

Stage Wins:
Mikko Hirvonen: SS 1-4
Mads Østberg: SS 5,6,8
Henning Solberg: SS 7.

Why was Brynildsen so far adrift of Ostberg? Did he crash into something?

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 05 Feb 2012, 18:19

Only thing I can find is that he struggled with ice on the front window on the first stages, and that half of his testing was aborted so Mads could test. First time for him in a WRC car, but I admit. A bit disappointed.

Anyway, Henning had max-attack all the way, damn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtOrkw6MgHk&feature=player_embedded

And here you can compare how the others drove in that corner, and see that Henning was on, and over the limit more than once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_l78_Mh_5U&feature=related

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Feb 2012, 21:55

Myrvold wrote:Only thing I can find is that he struggled with ice on the front window on the first stages, and that half of his testing was aborted so Mads could test. First time for him in a WRC car, but I admit. A bit disappointed.

Me too. I staked my (albeit nonexistant) reputation on him becoming the next big thing in Norwegian rallying, even ahead of Andreas Mikkelsen. So far it seems I have been a little bit wrong

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Feb 2012, 23:34

Myrvold wrote:Someone forgetting history here? In the 80's Lancia was the only factory team, and they didn't even run all rallies. WRC survived that. Anyway.

That may be so, but it's the lack of a promoter and each rally being responsible for its own TV deals in the 21st century, multi-platform, multimedia era that is of threat to the WRC's future more than the withdrawals of manufacturers, I think.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Feb 2012, 00:07

dr-baker wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Someone forgetting history here? In the 80's Lancia was the only factory team, and they didn't even run all rallies. WRC survived that. Anyway.

That may be so, but it's the lack of a promoter and each rally being responsible for its own TV deals in the 21st century, multi-platform, multimedia era that is of threat to the WRC's future more than the withdrawals of manufacturers, I think.

But if the manufacturers leave, what product will they have left to endorse? All the best drivers will depart to the IRC, where there are still works cars in the form of Peugeot, Skoda, Ford and Subaru to name a few. The WRC will become no better than the ERC if they lose all their big name teams and drivers.