Your Reject of the Race - Belgium!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 31 Aug 2009, 07:05

This is probably the hardest race yet to pick ROTR because most people during the weekend did something reject worthy. The 2 candidates that stand out the most though are Renault and Totoya. Both teams threw away big results in the first lap (That was why Alonso's stop didn't go to plan because he had run into the back of somebody damaging the rubbish bin lid) and never really recovered

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 31 Aug 2009, 12:43

Ben Gilbert wrote:Kimi Raikkonen

A controversial one I know, but hear me out. Yes he won the race, but to my mind he shouldn't have. Notice that on the first lap, he ran straight off onto the run-of areas, kept his foot hard downand leapt into second, thus alowing him to overtake Fisi at the restart via KERS. Since when was it legal to go off track and gain an advantage? He should have been penalised for that at the very least. Then, still on the opening lap, he runs off at Les Combes, and re-joins slamming into a BMW, and causing the chain-reaction that took off Button, Alguersuari, Hamilton and Grosjean, and doesn't get damaged.

Watch the race again. He didn't cause it, he was way ahead of them. It was Grosjean who started it.

Captain Hammer wrote:Actually, I'm changing my mind again. My Reject of the Race for Belgium is The Championship Quartet. Pretty much all four of them have blown it at some point or another, be it Button's poor qualifying, Barrichello stalling at the start again, Webber's unsafe release and drive-through or Vettel's nothin race.

This is probably my ROTR, too. More exactly, my ROTR are Barrichello and the Red Bull drivers, for repeatedly missing to take points out of Jenson.

For God's sake, since when the championship leader only scores 11 out of 50 points, yet his lead only decreases from 26 to 16 points?

Post by **Nuppiz** » 31 Aug 2009, 15:24

Ferrim wrote:For God's sake, since when the championship leader only scores 11 out of 50 points, yet his lead only decreases from 26 to 16 points?

If they aren't careful enough, Räikkönen will soon challenge the three runner-ups... :lol:

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 31 Aug 2009, 16:15

It might be too early to say, but a Reject candidate would be BMW fatcats. The team showed clear signs of recovery, but unfortunately the company pulled the plug.

Ben Gilbert · Post by **Ben Gilbert** » 31 Aug 2009, 16:47

Ferrim wrote:
Ben Gilbert wrote:Kimi Raikkonen

A controversial one I know, but hear me out. Yes he won the race, but to my mind he shouldn't have. Notice that on the first lap, he ran straight off onto the run-of areas, kept his foot hard downand leapt into second, thus alowing him to overtake Fisi at the restart via KERS. Since when was it legal to go off track and gain an advantage? He should have been penalised for that at the very least. Then, still on the opening lap, he runs off at Les Combes, and re-joins slamming into a BMW, and causing the chain-reaction that took off Button, Alguersuari, Hamilton and Grosjean, and doesn't get damaged.

Watch the race again. He didn't cause it, he was way ahead of them. It was Grosjean who started it.

It is debatable that part. In my view, his late rejoining of the track started the concertina reaction over everyone behind, which as going to lead to an inevitable collision. But you're quite right, he was too far ahead for a judgement to be made as to whether the collision was as a result of him.

However, what isn't debatable is that he rejoined the track dangerously, and apparently without looking*, which should warrant a penalty.

*Had he looked, he would have seen the BMW-Sauber he was about to hit, as it was in the area around his rear wheels.

tastyhouse · Post by **tastyhouse** » 31 Aug 2009, 17:12

Grosjean gets my vote for taking out Button and subsequently Hamilton and Jaime....then saying that it was Button that took him out. :lol:

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 01 Sep 2009, 09:28

My nomination is for... Kimi Raikonnen. This was a Force India win for the taking, but Fisi knowing Raikonnen's previous form with Force India took th wise decision to let him through early in the race so as to avoid the inevitable rear end shunt which other wise would have followed.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 01 Sep 2009, 09:48

noisebox wrote:My nomination is for... Kimi Raikonnen. This was a Force India win for the taking, but Fisi knowing Raikonnen's previous form with Force India took th wise decision to let him through early in the race so as to avoid the inevitable rear end shunt which other wise would have followed.

Nominating the winner for RotR is childish, IMO. I think Räikkönen deserved that victory, even if you could argue Fisico deserved it more.

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 01 Sep 2009, 11:10

Ferrim wrote:This is probably my ROTR, too. More exactly, my ROTR are Barrichello and the Red Bull drivers, for repeatedly missing to take points out of Jenson.

For God's sake, since when the championship leader only scores 11 out of 50 points, yet his lead only decreases from 26 to 16 points?

- Yup, ROTR MUST be the "Championship Contenders". Does nobody want to win this thing? (I would include Jenson in that too though)

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 01 Sep 2009, 11:13

Waris wrote:
noisebox wrote:My nomination is for... Kimi Raikonnen. This was a Force India win for the taking, but Fisi knowing Raikonnen's previous form with Force India took th wise decision to let him through early in the race so as to avoid the inevitable rear end shunt which other wise would have followed.

Nominating the winner for RotR is childish, IMO. I think Räikkönen deserved that victory, even if you could argue Fisico deserved it more.

Did it not cross your mind that my post was not 100% serious? :roll:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 01 Sep 2009, 12:54

kowalski wrote:
Ferrim wrote:This is probably my ROTR, too. More exactly, my ROTR are Barrichello and the Red Bull drivers, for repeatedly missing to take points out of Jenson.

For God's sake, since when the championship leader only scores 11 out of 50 points, yet his lead only decreases from 26 to 16 points?

- Yup, ROTR MUST be the "Championship Contenders". Does nobody want to win this thing? (I would include Jenson in that too though)

It's 1982 all over again. We just need a race like the Monaco GP from then and we're all set.

dresda · Post by **dresda** » 01 Sep 2009, 19:58

Those stupid wheel fairing/spinner thingys for costing Alonso a decent finish! ARRRGGGHHHHH!

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 01 Sep 2009, 23:07

ROTR for the championship contenders. They're simply lousy. :lol:

Bort · Post by **Bort** » 01 Sep 2009, 23:58

All three men on the podium are rejects, purely for the reason that not a single one of them gave us an awesome photo like this.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 02 Sep 2009, 01:07

nice picture :lol:

I'll nominate MW. His championship chances are now very very thin.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 02 Sep 2009, 15:45

KERS -- For basically allowing Kimi Raikkonen to drive wide and swerve all over the place, on and off the road to gain spots, all the while stacking up the field in the back once he merged onto the road and causing the first turn crash.

razta · Post by **razta** » 02 Sep 2009, 16:46

lostpin wrote:ROTR for the championship contenders. They're simply lousy.

ditto - all of them didn't capitalise on quite literally an open goal

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 02 Sep 2009, 16:47

Bort wrote:All three men on the podium are rejects, purely for the reason that not a single one of them gave us an awesome photo like this.

This casts my bet on Mark Webber's for WDC in a totally different light.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 03 Sep 2009, 00:09

This picture is a "Caption this!" worthy. :mrgreen:

Here goes my line:

Another proof that Webber suffered more than an injured leg at his pre-season biking non-sense..

AllAmericanReject · Post by **AllAmericanReject** » 03 Sep 2009, 05:39

It has to be Badoer. Crashing in qualifying, starting last, and finishing last in a race that was won by his teammate is reject-worthy, no matter how old he is or how long it's been since he last raced. Ferrari would have been better off putting Mika Salo in the car.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Sep 2009, 08:02

AllAmericanReject wrote:Ferrari would have been better off putting Mika Salo in the car.

As left of the field as that sounds, I agree. At least he has won something in his entire career! + he would be a GP winner by now if it weren't for team orders...

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 03 Sep 2009, 09:29

kostas22 wrote:
AllAmericanReject wrote:Ferrari would have been better off putting Mika Salo in the car.

At least he has won something in his entire career!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_International_Formula_3000_season#Driver

FW08 · Post by **FW08** » 03 Sep 2009, 09:53

Cynon wrote:KERS -- For basically allowing Kimi Raikkonen to drive wide and swerve all over the place, on and off the road to gain spots, all the while stacking up the field in the back once he merged onto the road and causing the first turn crash.

First of all, this wasn't even close to being the first time when a driver has to run wide in the first corner on the first lap at Spa in order to avoid a crash. He did not gain any places for it, and as DC said, he gathered enough dirt on his tires to still go a bit wide on the breaking at Les Combes. I challenge anyone to explain how he could've possibly avoided Kubica as he returned on the track?

Give the man the credit he is due. He drove a great race, the most impressive we've seen in years. (I mean when was the last time somebody with the clearly slower car won over a faster car without any tactical advantage?)

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 03 Sep 2009, 10:29

Cynon wrote:KERS -- For basically allowing Kimi Raikkonen to drive wide and swerve all over the place, on and off the road to gain spots, all the while stacking up the field in the back once he merged onto the road and causing the first turn crash.

To quote someone in Top Gear, what KERS has shown is the power... of power.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 03 Sep 2009, 21:36

Wow - having looked at this thread for the first time now ... has anyone NOT been nominated?

Agreed, this is yet another very very tough ROTR decision.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 04 Sep 2009, 01:11

eytl wrote:Wow - having looked at this thread for the first time now ... has anyone NOT been nominated?

Agreed, this is yet another very very tough ROTR decision.

By the way, Jamie and you are my ROTR for Valencia - for having yet to upload the European GP review! :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Sep 2009, 16:43

Ferrim wrote:
eytl wrote:Wow - having looked at this thread for the first time now ... has anyone NOT been nominated?

Agreed, this is yet another very very tough ROTR decision.

By the way, Jamie and you are my ROTR for Valencia - for having yet to upload the European GP review!

I nominate you, for failing to read the reasons why the European GP Review is still not online, on another thread.

I think that's everyone nominated now!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Sep 2009, 19:16

Valrys wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
AllAmericanReject wrote:Ferrari would have been better off putting Mika Salo in the car.

At least he has won something in his entire career!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_International_Formula_3000_season#Driver

Eh? Surprised at the drivers he beat...Rubens Barrichello, David Coulthard, Olivier Panis, Allan McNish, Laurent Aïello...must have been some strange forces at work there...Andrea Montermini 2nd?
F3000 was just plain weird sometimes. For example:
1995
1. Vincenzo Sospiri
2. Ricardo Rosset
5. Tarso Marques
2002
1. Sébastien Bourdais
2. Giorgio Pantano
3. Tomáš Enge

Thats a big dollop of rejectfullness from supposedly the Formula inferior only to F1. I think not.
See what I mean? Never trust F3000 titles...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Sep 2009, 20:00

kostas22 wrote:Eh? Surprised at the drivers he beat...Rubens Barrichello, David Coulthard, Olivier Panis, Allan McNish, Laurent Aïello...must have been some strange forces at work there...Andrea Montermini 2nd?
F3000 was just plain weird sometimes. For example:
1995
1. Vincenzo Sospiri
2. Ricardo Rosset
5. Tarso Marques
2002
1. Sébastien Bourdais
2. Giorgio Pantano
3. Tomáš Enge

Thats a big dollop of rejectfullness from supposedly the Formula inferior only to F1. I think not.
See what I mean? Never trust F3000 titles...

To be fair, Sospiri, Marques, and Badoer were never given a real chance, and didn't exactly show that they shouldn't be in F1.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 04 Sep 2009, 22:34

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Ferrim wrote:
eytl wrote:Wow - having looked at this thread for the first time now ... has anyone NOT been nominated?

Agreed, this is yet another very very tough ROTR decision.

By the way, Jamie and you are my ROTR for Valencia - for having yet to upload the European GP review!

I nominate you, for failing to read the reasons why the European GP Review is still not online, on another thread.

I think that's everyone nominated now!

I nominate you for not giving me a link to that thread I failed to read! :mrgreen:

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 04 Sep 2009, 23:01

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:To be fair, Sospiri, Marques, and Badoer were never given a real chance, and didn't exactly show that they shouldn't be in F1.

Thats putting it mildly. Sospiris only had one shot, with Lola :E Marques had three, all on Minardi :E and Badoer... well... BMS Scuderia, Forti and Minardi...

Well, Badoer had his chance with Ferrari but he was well.. Bad

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Sep 2009, 23:30

Ferrim wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Ferrim wrote:By the way, Jamie and you are my ROTR for Valencia - for having yet to upload the European GP review!

I nominate you, for failing to read the reasons why the European GP Review is still not online, on another thread.

I think that's everyone nominated now!

I nominate you for not giving me a link to that thread I failed to read!

Apologies where they are due:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=426#p10360

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 05 Sep 2009, 01:31

I think that I'll nominate Fisico, for being so damn good in Spa and for snatching away the Monza drive from Badoer.. :mrgreen:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 Sep 2009, 04:35

lostpin wrote:I think that I'll nominate Fisico, for being so damn good in Spa and for snatching away the Monza drive from Badoer..

Sorry, but I'm going to have to nominate you for that one. How is Fisichella moving to Ferrari - and replacing the woeful Badoer - a bad thing? Ferrari probably bought his Force India contract out a little, so it's not like Mallya is losing out.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 05 Sep 2009, 16:23

I think this thread has got slightly out of hand...

My choice for Reject of the Race is Badoer. Where was he all race weekend (apart from the memorable moment in FP3 when Rob Smedley told him off)?

Bort · Post by **Bort** » 06 Sep 2009, 23:42

Captain Hammer wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to nominate you for that one. How is Fisichella moving to Ferrari - and replacing the woeful Badoer - a bad thing? Ferrari probably bought his Force India contract out a little, so it's not like Mallya is losing out.

Because we will not get the enjoyment of seeing Badoer race at Monza.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 Sep 2009, 23:51

Bort wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to nominate you for that one. How is Fisichella moving to Ferrari - and replacing the woeful Badoer - a bad thing? Ferrari probably bought his Force India contract out a little, so it's not like Mallya is losing out.

Because we will not get the enjoyment of seeing Badoer race at Monza.

I'm fairly certain the only word you could use to describe what Badoer was doing is "driving", not "racing".

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 09 Sep 2009, 22:03

Do you think it might just be possible to leave Luca Badoer alone now? His career is over, nobody will ever beat his record, and his dream of driving for Ferrari came ten years too late, and ended up being shattered into tiny little pieces like a mirror falling from the sky. The media have crucified him, the Italians hate him, and there have some rather ill informed comments made across a variety of media sources towards him.

Yes, he didn't do very well in either of those races. He knows that, we know that, but let's just leave it at that now and move on.

FW08 wrote:First of all, this wasn't even close to being the first time when a driver has to run wide in the first corner on the first lap at Spa in order to avoid a crash.

There should have been penalties awarded last year as well, I agree, but the point is he went wider than was necessary, the stewards should have taken action, but failed to do so.

He did not gain any places for it, and as DC said, he gathered enough dirt on his tires to still go a bit wide on the breaking at Les Combes.

He passed both BMWs easily thanks to running wide, so I don't agree at all. Yes, he slithered off the road at Les Combes, but he had a huge slice of luck when Kubica didn't just crash straight into the back of him

I challenge anyone to explain how he could've possibly avoided Kubica as he returned on the track?

By not running all four wheels off it in the first place. He didn't even look in his mirrors on rejoining, as far as I could tell, which made it even worse.

Give the man the credit he is due. He drove a great race, the most impressive we've seen in years. (I mean when was the last time somebody with the clearly slower car won over a faster car without any tactical advantage?)

So, KERS wasn't a tactical advantage at the re-start? If that's what you are claiming, I disagree with you I'm afraid.

I have more issues with the stewards than I have with Raikkonen though (see my earlier posts in this thread for my detailed argument).

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 09 Sep 2009, 22:21

KERS is a tactical advantage thats for sure, I am not denying that. But guess what?

It's a legal advantage. A legal advantage that Ferrari developed at the cost of other car development.

I find it slightly amusing that when KERS, after months of unabased bashing, is actually advantegous, people throw a fit.

Are you just ticked off that it wasn't the utter and complete failure you wanted it to be?

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 09 Sep 2009, 22:26

DonTirri wrote:Are you just ticked off that it wasn't the utter and complete failure you wanted it to be?

I'm not throwing a fit. I don't like it, because I think when the idea is meant to be one of cutting costs, to introduce KERS is an oxymoron in that respect, and also it makes a mockery of the ridiculous rules on gearbox and engine restrictions, both of which make F1 cars too reliable in my opinion. In other words, the FIA basically set, we must keep costs down, but you can all spend loads of money on KERS! That makes no sense in my opinion.

I didn't question it's legality, so I have no idea why you brought that point up.