Grand Prix Rejects

To this day people struggle to get a good match to the colour when building kits of the McLarens.

With Jenson Button linked with a return to Williams it got me thinking

1. If he does return to Williams the 16 years since he was last their would be the longest gap between driving for same team? what the current longest gap between 2 stints with the same team.

2. If he does it will probably be the last team he drives for. Ignoring those who completed their whole career with the same team how many have started and ended their career with the same team.

peteroli34 wrote:With Jenson Button linked with a return to Williams it got me thinking

1. If he does return to Williams the 16 years since he was last their would be the longest gap between driving for same team? what the current longest gap between 2 stints with the same team.

2. If he does it will probably be the last team he drives for. Ignoring those who completed their whole career with the same team how many have started and ended their career with the same team.

And on that note, I wonder how many within the team Jenson would still know and recognise? What would the turnover of staff be like in a company that size?

peteroli34 wrote:With Jenson Button linked with a return to Williams it got me thinking

1. If he does return to Williams the 16 years since he was last their would be the longest gap between driving for same team? what the current longest gap between 2 stints with the same team.

It most definitely would be. The number of drivers with a career spanning that much time can almost be counted on one hand and of the ones that have, most of them were in the twilight years of their careers after the teams at which they started had folded (e.g. Shadow for Patrese, or Cooper for Brabham).

peteroli34 wrote:2. If he does it will probably be the last team he drives for. Ignoring those who completed their whole career with the same team how many have started and ended their career with the same team.

Only example I can come up with is Heinz-Harald Frentzen, who bookended his career with Sauber.

Prost almost ended his career with McLaren, until he gave the Peugeot engine-equipped MP4/9 a go and wasn't impressed, and, while it's not exactly the same, Alesi ended his career at Jordan, with whom he had won the F3000 title in the year he made his F1 début.

Well... there's Pierluigi Martini, but other than 1992, all the cars he ever drove were the same team.

This wrote:Well... there's Pierluigi Martini, but other than 1992, all the cars he ever drove were the same team.

Actually, he started out at Toleman.



He DNQ'd, but I guess it counts.

dr-baker wrote:And on that note, I wonder how many within the team Jenson would still know and recognise? What would the turnover of staff be like in a company that size?

I'm not sure if it's still the case now, but in Mark Webber's autobiography he talked about how Williams was a really toxic environment for staff at all levels. It seemed like at least in his day turnover was huge.

Simtek wrote:

This wrote:Well... there's Pierluigi Martini, but other than 1992, all the cars he ever drove were the same team.

Actually, he started out at Toleman.
he DNQ'd, but I guess it counts.

Oh yeah, i forgot that anyone else than Johnny Cecotto drove that Toleman in 1984 Well that proves how hard it is to find someone with a relatively big career span, i guess, as before that i came up with many names, and then googled, and then nope.

peteroli34 wrote:With Jenson Button linked with a return to Williams it got me thinking
2. If he does it will probably be the last team he drives for. Ignoring those who completed their whole career with the same team how many have started and ended their career with the same team.

Felice Bonetto (Maserati) and Tony Brooks (Owen's BRM), in an older era...

EuroBrun wrote:

peteroli34 wrote:With Jenson Button linked with a return to Williams it got me thinking
2. If he does it will probably be the last team he drives for. Ignoring those who completed their whole career with the same team how many have started and ended their career with the same team.

Felice Bonetto (Maserati) and Tony Brooks (Owen's BRM), in an older era...

Not quite the same with the 1950s: Bonetto started out with Scuderia Milano, which ran Maserati cars but was certainly not a works Maserati team, whilst Brooks had raced non-championship rounds in Connaughts, famously winning for the works team at Syracuse in 1955, although he did indeed make his world championship début for BRM.

What about Lammers? Didn't he get behind the wheel of a March at one point or another in the late 70s?

AndreaModa wrote:What about Lammers? Didn't he get behind the wheel of a March at one point or another in the late 70s?

Nah, March were gone by the time Lammers arrived, he started with Shadow. 1992 was the first time he'd raced a March F1 car.

No-one's mentioned Ghinzani....

Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

The closest example I can think of for now is Ferrari sacking Jean Behra following the 1959 French GP after he punched team manager Romolo Tavoni.

3 Reprimands gets a driver a 10 place grid job. What happens if you get another one. Do you get a penalty or would your penalty be at the 6th reprimand. To me a 4th one would be another penalty otherwise its the case of 3 reprimands is bad but 4 or 5 is fine.

peteroli34 wrote:3 Reprimands gets a driver a 10 place grid job. What happens if you get another one. Do you get a penalty or would your penalty be at the 6th reprimand.

aye that one yo

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

Bruno Senna supposedly missed the 2010 British Grand Prix due to a very critical e-mail he sent to Colin Kolles. Otherwise Yamamoto would have replaced Chandhok as he did in the later races. Yet another classic event in the legend of HRT.

AustralianStig wrote:I'm not sure if it's still the case now, but in Mark Webber's autobiography he talked about how Williams was a really toxic environment for staff at all levels. It seemed like at least in his day turnover was huge.

Yea, but he is a petulant whiner. So take with much salt.

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

Ferrari canned Prost for saying the car handled like a dump truck at the end of 1990.

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

Well, Renè Arnoux being sacked by Ferrari right after the first race of the 1985 season comes quite close to that. Even now, the reasons behind it are still unclear.

Wallio wrote:Ferrari canned Prost for saying the car handled like a dump truck at the end of 1990.

He was sacked before the last race of the season, not on a Saturday evening before the race!

Ocon chooses #31.


This was the last time #31 was seen during a F1 race.

EuroBrun wrote:

Wallio wrote:Ferrari canned Prost for saying the car handled like a dump truck at the end of 1990.

He was sacked before the last race of the season, not on a Saturday evening before the race!

I seem to recall it was the wednesday or Thursday of the race week, so still pretty close. And besides, what he said, while harsh, was pretty spot on. Reminds me of the scene in Rush "You can't say that, its a Ferrari!" "It's a shitebox!"

Wallio wrote:

EuroBrun wrote:

Wallio wrote:Ferrari canned Prost for saying the car handled like a dump truck at the end of 1990.

He was sacked before the last race of the season, not on a Saturday evening before the race!

I seem to recall it was the wednesday or Thursday of the race week, so still pretty close. And besides, what he said, while harsh, was pretty spot on. Reminds me of the scene in Rush "You can't say that, its a Ferrari!" "It's a shitebox!"

You're right actually! The news of Prost sacked was given on 30.10.1991, so on Wednesday, although the fact Prost would be leaving the team was in the air.

EuroBrun wrote:You're right actually! The news of Prost sacked was given on 30.10.1991, so on Wednesday, although the fact Prost would be leaving the team was in the air.

Us old guys have our moments, not many, but they come. Now if only I can remember what I had for breakfast...

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

I Dont think thats ever happened in Formula One, But Prost F1 driver Tomas Enge was sacked 45 Minutes into the Mid Ohio race of the 2007 ALMS season.

peteroli34 wrote:

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

I Dont think thats ever happened in Formula One, But Prost F1 driver Tomas Enge was sacked 45 Minutes into the Mid Ohio race of the 2007 ALMS season.

And of course, Paco Godia was sacked by Gordini via pitboard at the 1955 French Grand Prix for causing his teammate Consalvo Sanesi to have an accid-sorry what? It's fictional and only ever happened in this forum's alternate universe? Well, that's a shame...

Well, forget I said anything

How come some folk DNQ'd during 1993? There were only 26 cars and the 107% rule wasn't introduced yet, am I missing something?

Mexicola wrote:How come some folk DNQ'd during 1993? There were only 26 cars and the 107% rule wasn't introduced yet, am I missing something?

In a nutshell: The FIA wanted to spice things up/make qualifying actually mean qualifying by only allowing the fastest 25 cars take the start, a rule they ditched halfway through the season. Really screwed over the BMS Lolas...

Could've been worse though, it was originally supposed to be the top 24.

Wallio wrote:

EuroBrun wrote:

Wallio wrote:Ferrari canned Prost for saying the car handled like a dump truck at the end of 1990.

He was sacked before the last race of the season, not on a Saturday evening before the race!

I seem to recall it was the wednesday or Thursday of the race week, so still pretty close. And besides, what he said, while harsh, was pretty spot on. Reminds me of the scene in Rush "You can't say that, its a Ferrari!" "It's a shitebox!"

Apparently the reality about Prost's Ferrari sacking was far more complicated than that:

http://www.autosport.com/premium/featur ... 1462953516

Don't have Autosport plus anymore, but IIRC the article says that Prost's "truck" comment has been taken way out of context. After the race in Suzuka Prost commented to the press the steering on his 643 was way too heavy which made it feel like he was steering a truck. Ferrari used this as a scapegoat to sack him. Indeed Motorsport Magazine's race report on Suzuka 1991 (so before Prost was sacked) stated;

"there was much speculation whether Prost would be at the 1991 Japanese Grand Prix and even more afterwards that he would skip Adelaide"

Page 1108, Decemeber 1991 issue.


Lauda, Gilles, Irvine & Alonso have all made similar comments about their cars whislt they have been driving for Ferrari. Yet none of those were sacked for their comments. So why Prost I hear you ask?

IIRC apparently Prost could see that Ferrari was in complete disarray around this time so wanted to take more control of the management side of things. Especially as their appeared to be no strong leader in the wake of Enzo's death. The people running the team didn't like this as they felt Prost was stepping on their shoes, and therefore looked for any excuse to get rid of him. Hence the sacking, over what IMO is a fairly tame comment. According to Motorsport Magazine Prost wanted to make a press conference at Adelaide 1991 about his point of view, but was advised not to by his lawyers simply not to cause more of a sh*tstorm.

novitopoli wrote:

EuroBrun wrote:Moto3 rider Romano Fenati banned from racing by his own team for behavior not in line with the disciplinary rules of a team.

Has something similar ever happened during a Formula One weekend?

Well, Renè Arnoux being sacked by Ferrari right after the first race of the 1985 season comes quite close to that. Even now, the reasons behind it are still unclear.

There was a strong rumor on Autosport's forum that was because Rene was banging the 'Old Man's' Niece whilst enjoying some of Columbia's finest nose candy. Another example to add here possibly is when Toleman made Senna sit out a race at Monza 1984, for breaking his contract early.

Simtek wrote:

Mexicola wrote:How come some folk DNQ'd during 1993? There were only 26 cars and the 107% rule wasn't introduced yet, am I missing something?

In a nutshell: The FIA wanted to spice things up/make qualifying actually mean qualifying by only allowing the fastest 25 cars take the start, a rule they ditched halfway through the season. Really screwed over the BMS Lolas...

Could've been worse though, it was originally supposed to be the top 24.

Christ, that sounds like the bollocks. Never knew about that, cheers.

Mexicola wrote:

Simtek wrote:

Mexicola wrote:How come some folk DNQ'd during 1993? There were only 26 cars and the 107% rule wasn't introduced yet, am I missing something?

In a nutshell: The FIA wanted to spice things up/make qualifying actually mean qualifying by only allowing the fastest 25 cars take the start, a rule they ditched halfway through the season. Really screwed over the BMS Lolas...

Could've been worse though, it was originally supposed to be the top 24.

Christ, that sounds like the bollocks. Never knew about that, cheers.

IIRC there was a 107 % rule brought in at the beginning of the year but scrapped mid way through

After March team collapsed, they felt that there should not be automatic qualification for everyone so initially it was set that 24 will qualify and two will be left out. However, it was soon decided that every team should get to race, so there was only one non-qualifier.

After a while it was decided that there's no harm for allowing everyone to race, so everyone was allowed to race.

Bleu wrote:After March team collapsed, they felt that there should not be automatic qualification for everyone so initially it was set that 24 will qualify and two will be left out. However, it was soon decided that every team should get to race, so there was only one non-qualifier.

After a while it was decided that there's no harm for allowing everyone to race, so everyone was allowed to race.

The Lolas were so far behind everyone else that it was immediately apparent that they would both DNQ almost every time if a 24 car grid was maintained. At such a disadvantage, they upped the grid to 25 cars so at least one would qualify.

And despite the 25 car field in the Brazilian GP, both Lolas qualified, seeing as Ivan Capelli DNQed in the Jordan. Then again, after his season with Ferrari in 1992, it seemed that Capelli found F1 about as enjoyable as chopping the heads off kittens and puppies... No wonder he retired from the sport right after Brazil.

Oh and don't forget that King Luca actually qualified the Lola shitbox in 21st in Brazil, beating both Tyrrells and Barbazza in the Minardi!

Fred Mayo wrote:And despite the 25 car field in the Brazilian GP, both Lolas qualified, seeing as Ivan Capelli DNQed in the Jordan. Then again, after his season with Ferrari in 1992, it seemed that Capelli found F1 about as enjoyable as chopping the heads off kittens and puppies... No wonder he retired from the sport right after Brazil.

Oh and don't forget that King Luca actually qualified the Lola shitbox in 21st in Brazil, beating both Tyrrells and Barbazza in the Minardi!

What makes you so sure Capelli doesn't enjoy chopping the heads of kittens and puppies?

This wrote:What makes you so sure Capelli doesn't enjoy chopping the heads of kittens and puppies?

True, I can't know for sure. And while I suspect that most F1 drivers are self-absorbed and self-obsessed to the point where they are totally unbearable to be around, I doubt that any of them have quite the level of psychopathic tendencies to actually enjoy such a thing as chopping heads off innocent little animals. Hopefully.

Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if someone like Max Verstappen enjoyed picking up and smashing snails against brick walls until quite recently.

If Magnussen cant race in Italy who will replace him?

peteroli34 wrote:If Magnussen cant race in Italy who will replace him?

Since Ocon's busy with Manor duties, Renault will round up Sergey Sirotkin, Ollie Rowland, Louis Deletraz, Nicholas Latifi and Kevin Joerg and force them to stage an impromptu "Renault's Got Talent" for the Italian crowd. Sirotkin performs a duet with Dany Kvyat, singing "Everybody Hurts" and wowing the crowd, whilst Nicholas Latifi is disqualified for singing Nickelback. "Louis Lewis" Deletraz steals the show with his version of "Hip To Be Square", a song so catchy, most people don't even listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends, but it's also a statement about the band itself!

peteroli34 wrote:If Magnussen cant race in Italy who will replace him?

Is Carmen Jorda still one of the reserves?