2009 Belgian Grand Prix discussion

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:06

Greatest moment of the year so far?

He won't win, he's probably preposterously light, but still... :shock:

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:11

Formula One. Bloody hell!

Disappointed for Button, but I still can't help coming away with a ridiculous grin on my face after all that. As Brundle said in the commentary, while Fisichella might not be the heaviest car in the top ten, I doubt they're on a totally ludicrous fuel load. Fisichella, Trulli and Barrichello all in the top four - it's a 90s retro race, clearly! Never mind all these new young bucks!

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:15

Such a momentous day must be commemorated. There should be NO ROTR, any race where Fisi qualifies a Force India on pole is inherently perfect in every way shape and form.
And now I must go do my happy dance. So freakin awesome

dragonsteincole · Post by **dragonsteincole** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:20

Maybe Fisi and Badoer could swap seats? Badoer might have a more competitive car then :p
But wow. Fisichella could probably take a whizz in the fuel tank and double the amount he had in there, but amazing session, was one of the most exciting and downright astonishing I can remember for a while. Most people seem to be glossing over the fact that Heidfeld is in third! And Kubica is also in the top 10. What is it about that track that has made the grid go "a-whoops" and flip upside down?

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:21

YES!!!! Yes! yes! Yes! Fisichella on pole Woohoo!

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:25

I think Force India have genuine pace. Whether he's a contender for the win, we'll have to wait and see, but if he isn't, who is? Trulli? Heidfeld? These would be equally as good. I haven't been as excited for a Grand Prix since probably Monza last year, when we had a Toro Rosso on pole! I'm actually excited, EXCITED about the fuel loads coming out! That's never happened before! Sutil for his first points tomorrow as well, but perhaps not escaping rejectdom just yet.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:26

FORZA FISICHELLA!!!!!
Fisichella you genius.
F**k Button, Fisichella FTW.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:28

And that is why Spa is the greatest circuit in F1. If only we had more tracks designed to test the driver's ability instead of satisfying the sponsors and TV companies, surely the better racing would attract more fans to the sport which would ultimately benefit TV and sponsors anyway.

I feel sorry for Badoer though, he really needed to show what he was made of and I don't think he would have qualified last if he managed to hook his last lap together. It still may not have been enough for him to keep his seat at Ferrari but he would have left the sport with something to show for himself at least.

Well done Fisichella!

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:30

This season makes the least sense in living memory in terms of how vastly different each team's performance has been throughout the season.

Brawn- Miles quicker, only as fast as Red Bull, slower than Red Bull, slower than half the grid, fast again but only with Barrichello

Red Bull- Miles behind Brawn, miles faster than Ferrari and McLaren, faster than everyone, slower, fast again, slow again

McLaren- Middle of the road, pretty awful, completely and utterly awful, fastest out of nowhere, average again

Ferrari- Slow, still slow, still slow, getting quicker, getting some points and podiums,

Toyota- Fast, fast, fast, suddenly completely shite, terrible terrible terrible, back to being average and boring

BMW- Fast, faster still, shockingly slow, continuing to be slow, hilariously bad, laughably bad, suddenly quite quick after the
bosses have given up and the drivers need a ride

Williams- Steady, steady, getting a bit better (one of the most consistent teams inc. STR, who have been consistently bad)

Renault- Dross, average, quickish, terrible, terrible terrible, unremarkable, suddenly quick but then nothing once more

Force India- Slow, slowly improving, middle of the road, edging into contention, bit crap again, Pole Position!

STR-Brilliant start, abject capitulation into reject-like team performance.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:33

Crazy qualifying. Force India, followed by Toyota and BMW???

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:34

Well done Fisichella, Hopefully Sutil can also use the free strategy in 11th place to his advantage. A Force India 1-2 would be great, but it would be so unusual, it would probably cause the Earth to collapse inside itself, It would still be worth it.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 29 Aug 2009, 13:53

I think for race-
1. Trulli
2. Rubens
3. Nick/Fisichella
Look out for Kimi will be a threat at start!! Those Ferrrari's and Mclarens are too slow in S2.....
Plus as I said there is good chance of overtaking KERS cars by non KERS cars here!! Bcoz effect of KERS is very less after 250Km/hr on long straights!!

RBR was expected to be quick, may be engine woe mean they have to decrease revs??

Jordan 1-2 at Spa- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZxkCvH4BkI
11 years later Fisi takes pole in same team (I mean just name has changed)!! Is win possible?? If rain comes, then I think it is!!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2009, 14:03

Hmmm, what if the Red Bulls and Barrichello are actually on a considerable fuel load? We might have a "normal" podium on that case.

Either way, if there's a circuit where it might make sense to try something stupid, it's Spa. The weather can always blow everyone's strategies into the weeds anyway...

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 29 Aug 2009, 14:13

Forza Giancarlo indeed!

Good luck for the race to both Force 1ndias.

This pole position is another reason for the team to keep both of their drivers on board for next season. So Ferrari will have to look elsewhere to fill their #3 car for Monza. Hopefully, they will do the reasonable thing and keep Badoer in for his home GP as he clearly is showing improvement, having removed lots of the rust already. (And then after that, a street race expert who already knows both Singapore and the engine would probably the best choice: Sebastien Bourdais.)

The Toyotas and BMWs seem to be working suddenly as well at Spa. Good luck to them as well. We'll see how they can perform against Barrichello, who is having another go at the championship. Good luck to him as well.

What a season ...

And here's to a full and speedy recovery for Felipe Massa as well.

Cheers.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:14

jackanderton wrote:This season makes the least sense in living memory in terms of how vastly different each team's performance has been throughout the season.

Brawn- Miles quicker, only as fast as Red Bull, slower than Red Bull, slower than half the grid, fast again but only with Barrichello

Red Bull- Miles behind Brawn, miles faster than Ferrari and McLaren, faster than everyone, slower, fast again, slow again

McLaren- Middle of the road, pretty awful, completely and utterly awful, fastest out of nowhere, average again

Ferrari- Slow, still slow, still slow, getting quicker, getting some points and podiums,

Toyota- Fast, fast, fast, suddenly completely shite, terrible terrible terrible, back to being average and boring

BMW- Fast, faster still, shockingly slow, continuing to be slow, hilariously bad, laughably bad, suddenly quite quick after the
bosses have given up and the drivers need a ride

Williams- Steady, steady, getting a bit better (one of the most consistent teams inc. STR, who have been consistently bad)

Renault- Dross, average, quickish, terrible, terrible terrible, unremarkable, suddenly quick but then nothing once more

Force India- Slow, slowly improving, middle of the road, edging into contention, bit crap again, Pole Position!

STR-Brilliant start, abject capitulation into reject-like team performance.

It seems we could actually sort the nine teams that have something to contribute (not STR) into whether they're good at fast circuits or slow circuits. It'll make the rest of the year easier to guess:

Fast Circuits: Toyota, Force India, Red Bull, BMW
Slow Circuits: Brawn, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Williams

sailer 99 · Post by **sailer 99** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:27

dont get to excited raikinon will just take fisi out on the first corner becuase of KERS and his need to destroy force india

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:30

Well he's light, but comparatively speaking not that light:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78131

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:35

Paul Hayes wrote:Well he's light, but comparatively speaking not that light:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78131

Thumbs up for Trulli and Usually Quick Heidfeld, they're close and heavier. Raikkonen's not bad as well.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:43

Certainly Trulli and Heidfeld look very good compared to their team-mates, and those weights will also annoy the Red Bull pair somewhat, I would have thought. Barrichello's fourth looks less impressive on his weight, and a bit artificial in truth.

But that start at Spa usually seems to render the grid order mostly redundant anyway.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Aug 2009, 16:48

I've just remembered that the last time the OFKAJ (Outfit Formerly Known As Jordan) scored a point was...

...at Spa!

Monteiro finished 8th in 2005 and scored the final point for Jordan.

If Fisi (a former Jordan driver) scores tomorrow, the circle will be completed :mrgreen:

In fact, he missed on Jordan's first win back in Hockenheim 1997, so it would be very fitting if he could take Force India's first win

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 29 Aug 2009, 17:13

Sutil was 8th in Fuji 2007. But if you mean where finishing you are kind of correct - Sutil finished 9th but Liuzzi was penalized for overtaking (Sutil) under yellow flags.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 29 Aug 2009, 17:27

Ferrim wrote:If Fisi (a former Jordan driver) scores tomorrow, the circle will be completed In fact, he missed on Jordan's first win back in Hockenheim 1997, so it would be very fitting if he could take Force India's first win

Well, taking force indias first win in Spa would be completing a circle too. Jordan did pick up its first win in Spa ^^

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Aug 2009, 17:36

Are Force Inida the first team to get a pole positon before a point (other than Alfa Romeo in the first race)?

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Aug 2009, 17:43

Bleu wrote:Sutil was 8th in Fuji 2007. But if you mean where finishing you are kind of correct - Sutil finished 9th but Liuzzi was penalized for overtaking (Sutil) under yellow flags.

Oh, I thought that penalty had been reverted! Now I see it wasn't.

Enrique Bernoldi · Post by **Enrique Bernoldi** » 29 Aug 2009, 18:26

shinji wrote:Are Force Inida the first team to get a pole positon before a point (other than Alfa Romeo in the first race)?

Well technically Brawn did it at the first Grand Prix in Melbourne.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Aug 2009, 18:45

The question now is; where will he finish? Or will he finish?

I'm predicting very pessimistically that he'll do a Rubens at Spa '94 and crash having gotten his team's first pole.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2009, 20:00

Just watching Qualy on iPlayer. Monster effort for Rosberg during Q2, effectively dropping Sutil. That Williams had no right of be on Q3, it was rubbish all weekend. Boy, of he goes into McLaren next year, he might indeed give Hamilton a run for his money.

dragonsteincole · Post by **dragonsteincole** » 29 Aug 2009, 21:42

shinji wrote:The question now is; where will he finish? Or will he finish?

I'm predicting very pessimistically that he'll do a Rubens at Spa '94 and crash having gotten his team's first pole.

Well, Raikkonen is way ahead of Sutil, so hitting the other Force India would probably be next best thing...

Seriously though, if there is a Fisi-Raikkonen collision tomorrow that screws FI out of points I will personally hitchike to Maranello and beat Kimi to death with a Cornetto.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Aug 2009, 21:44

My prediction for Fisico is 4th. Raikkonen will jump Kubica and Barrichello at the start, beat Fisico on strategy and overtake Trulli and Heidfeld for the win.
Fisico should be safe from Barrichello amnd Kubica but you never know...
But if Fisi wins I am buying everybody here a pint of lager. Except you will have to buy it, because I am underage :lol:

@dragonsteincole A Cornetto? That won't work. He is an iceman! Better beating him to death with a Kentucky Fried Chicken Wing.

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 29 Aug 2009, 22:29

One of the best all dry qualifying sessions I have seen since I started watching F1.

It was also the first time in years that my top ten prediction was utterly wrong for a dry qualifying session! This was fantastic, and I'm delighted that Fisichella is on pole for Force India. It's very unlikely that he will win, but both he and Sutil are in good shape to get Force India off the mark, and they really don't deserve to finish the year without any points, so I hope they do well tomorrow.

I really have no idea who is going to win, and I like that feeling

.

You tend to get drama at proper race tracks (Valencia take note), and there should be a fair bit of overtaking tomorrow, especially in the early laps with the McLarens with KERS in the middle of the pack.

A very poor weekend for Button so far, and his attitude is becoming less and less convincing to my mind ever since Silverstone. He really needs to sort his mindset out if he wants to be World Champion in my opinion.

Red Bull were surprisingly slow, and BMW surprisingly quick.

As for Luca Badoer, well he was much closer to the pace, but, and I say this very sadly, still not quick enough. I hope he has a better race. You never know, there could be a multiple car pile up at La Source, which he drives around and finishes in the points. Yes, I know I've just invented a new definition of optimism, but it could happen

.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 Aug 2009, 06:31

I'm interested to see what Button can do. He's running very heavy, and isn't due in until lap 27. The object seems to be a one-stop strategy; Brawn seem to think they can make the softer tyres last seventeen laps and Toyota have proven that you can do wonders with a heavy fuel load in the past. It's going to suit Button's common-sense approach into the first corner,and when Hamilton gets KERS-happy off the line, it'll probably mean he jumps the Red Bulls. I don't think he has a lot to orry about from Barrichello, who is stopping very early; Button's first stint is nearly twice as long.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:50

Holy crap... this is even better than a Badoer Win and that's saying something
And if the Force Wins I'll buy everyone here a very large pint

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 09:57

Finally, how about Jarno FTW? Or Nick FTW? Man, that'd make BMW instant ROTY... :lol:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 30 Aug 2009, 10:48

CarlosFerreira wrote:Finally, how about Jarno FTW? Or Nick FTW? Man, that'd make BMW instant ROTY...

No no... if Nick wins it makes the rest of the world instant ROTY for dissing Beamer so much this year :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 10:52

Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Finally, how about Jarno FTW? Or Nick FTW? Man, that'd make BMW instant ROTY...

No no... if Nick wins it makes the rest of the world instant ROTY for dissing Beamer so much this year

Here's a new accolade for teams that pull out and see their offshoots win: the Honda award.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 30 Aug 2009, 10:55

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Finally, how about Jarno FTW? Or Nick FTW? Man, that'd make BMW instant ROTY...

No no... if Nick wins it makes the rest of the world instant ROTY for dissing Beamer so much this year

Here's a new accolade for teams that pull out and see their offshoots win: the Honda award.

I though BMW already won that award at Valencia thanks to Kubica :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 11:04

Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Wizzie wrote:No no... if Nick wins it makes the rest of the world instant ROTY for dissing Beamer so much this year

Here's a new accolade for teams that pull out and see their offshoots win: the Honda award.

I though BMW already won that award at Valencia thanks to Kubica

The way I see it, they have the potential to have it big time in Spa.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 30 Aug 2009, 12:07

Brawn

Badoer just got the fastest lap with the pace car

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 30 Aug 2009, 12:57

this race is bizzare (and for '09 thats saying something) first fissy gets pole in the force india... turn 5 incidents takes out the championship leader and the reigning champion.... and Kimi can't shake fissy off....

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:07

Most exciting pit stops ever