2010 British Grand Prix Discussion

Post by **mario** » 05 Jul 2010, 17:03

Well, with the British GP under a week away, I thought that it might be ok to open this thread.
Firstly, good news for Williams fans; following on from the success Williams had in Valencia with the new floor (which, crucially, has allowed the FW32 to run much closer to the ground, increasing the downforce considerably, along with an upgraded engine), they are planning to bring a new diffuser to Silverstone, and join the club of exhaust driven diffuser teams. Hopefully, this should be able to keep Williams within the top 10, and help them score more points (although I suspect that they might struggle to replicate their Valencia form, I wouldn't bet against a top 8 finish - at the very least, I would like them to have a top 8 finish).

Meanwhile, Webber will be getting a replacement chassis for Silverstone. Although Red Bull have repaired the chassis Webber wrecked in Valencia, they don't want to press it into service, and have decided to mkae it the reserve chassis. Instead, Webber will get chassis No. 3; the sharp eyed amongst you might recognise this as Vettel's old chassis, Luscious Liz. It seems that Red Bull have been able to identify what the problem was, and have repaired the chassis, making it race worthy. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85013

At Renault, it seems that Petrov is starting to come under a bit more pressure from the managers - Renault are targeting Mercedes, and believe that if Petrov can score on a regular basis, starting at Silverstone, they can overhaul Mercedes in the WCC. However, Renault are also facing a difficult decision - do they continue to press on with developing the 2010 car, or should they start shifting more resources towards the 2011 car? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85011

And finally, Bridgestone are expecting the tyres to be under even more strain, because of the increased speeds of the cars through the new Arena section (which Bridgestone think may make Silverstone the fastest track on the calendar in terms of average lap speed). As a result, they are not bringing the super soft tyres, which would not withstand the lateral forces - it will be the soft and hard compounds this coming weekend. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85008

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Jul 2010, 17:30

I'll be there on all 3 days, the F1 Rejects banner is under construction as we speak!

If I get a chance I'll get a photo of it and stick it up here before friday!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Jul 2010, 18:51

mario wrote:Meanwhile, Webber will be getting a replacement chassis for Silverstone. Although Red Bull have repaired the chassis Webber wrecked in Valencia, they don't want to press it into service, and have decided to mkae it the reserve chassis. Instead, Webber will get chassis No. 3; the sharp eyed amongst you might recognise this as Vettel's old chassis, Luscious Liz. It seems that Red Bull have been able to identify what the problem was, and have repaired the chassis, making it race worthy. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85013

This is a f***ing joke. Giving Webber a hand-me-down chassis which I bet slows him down this weekend. They may claim to have fixed it but I bet you Vettel trounces him this weekend because of it - thats if it even makes the finish before breaking down.

They don't seem to feel the need too hide the favouritism anymore, now that it's been out in the open since Turkey.

Post by **mario** » 05 Jul 2010, 19:28

AndreaModa wrote:I'll be there on all 3 days, the F1 Rejects banner is under construction as we speak!

If I get a chance I'll get a photo of it and stick it up here before friday!

I'm sure that you'll do us proud - here's hoping that someone like the BBC manage to pick up on it.

kostas22 wrote:
mario wrote:Meanwhile, Webber will be getting a replacement chassis for Silverstone. Although Red Bull have repaired the chassis Webber wrecked in Valencia, they don't want to press it into service, and have decided to make it the reserve chassis. Instead, Webber will get chassis No. 3; the sharp eyed amongst you might recognise this as Vettel's old chassis, Luscious Liz. It seems that Red Bull have been able to identify what the problem was, and have repaired the chassis, making it race worthy. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85013

This is a f***ing joke. Giving Webber a hand-me-down chassis which I bet slows him down this weekend. They may claim to have fixed it but I bet you Vettel trounces him this weekend because of it - thats if it even makes the finish before breaking down.

They don't seem to feel the need too hide the favouritism anymore, now that it's been out in the open since Turkey.

Whilst I am not surprised that Webber might have needed a new chassis (the crash he had was quite severe, and would almost certainly have reduced the structural integrity of the chassis), there might be a few raised eyebrows along the pit lane about this decision. It isn't unheard of for drivers to swop a chassis, but it does seem odd that the team would re-use an old chassis that was known to have had problems in the past (thought to be delamination around the suspension mounting points, which reduced the stiffness of the chassis and caused it to flex slightly).

It also makes for a slightly confusing chassis schedule - as far as I am aware, Vettel started the season with Chassis No.3, and Mark used Chassis No.2 (with Chassis No.1 crash tested to destruction by the FIA). After a few races, Mark was switched from Chassis No.2 to Chassis No.4, which he continued to use up until Valencia, with Chassis No.2 being brought along as a spare. After Monaco, Vettel was switched from Chassis No.3 to Chassis No.2, with Chassis No.3 repaired and originally kept as Vettel's spare chassis. Now, after Webber's accident, he gets the repaired Chassis No.3, and No.4 becomes his spare chassis.

Makes you wonder though - why didn't they have a fresh chassis? Or is it simply the case that they haven't been able to make one (it is, after all, a slow process to make a new chassis - I've heard talk of it being in the order of two months)?
And, given that this was Vettel's Luscious Liz, it would make it slightly more enjoyable for Mark if he manages to beat Vettel this coming weekend...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Jul 2010, 20:51

If Webber wins with Liz then Vettel will probably throw his toys out of the pram and demand he swaps chassis with Webber again.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 05 Jul 2010, 21:50

Being in Surrey (for the time being), I was hoping to be there as well, yet Silverstone made it very difficult for an Intl. address to have tickets posted to a local address (faxes of utility bills from home ,etc). :roll:

I suppose I could have gone and gotten tickets on race day, but I was infomed (by Silverstone) that tickets would even be more expensive than pre-order (£220 pounds online). :shock:

Unfortunately I won't be there (against my desire). :oops:

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 05 Jul 2010, 22:09

Your in Surrey??? People are usually awash with money there, most Surrey residents would only have to look down the back of the sofa to find that sort of money. On the weather, we've had months of almost unbroken sunshine, virtually no rain since March. Its quite eerie to live in London in consistent good weather, and its likely to stay that way for the race.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 05 Jul 2010, 22:15

mario wrote:And finally, Bridgestone are expecting the tyres to be under even more strain, because of the increased speeds of the cars through the new Arena section (which Bridgestone think may make Silverstone the fastest track on the calendar in terms of average lap speed). As a result, they are not bringing the super soft tyres, which would not withstand the lateral forces - it will be the soft and hard compounds this coming weekend. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85008

This could be quite encouraging for the race as teams are likely to run relatively little downforce which in turn means overtaking is more likely due to less disturbance and longer breaking areas. If it is as fast as they think that might put Force India into the mix for the top 10...

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 05 Jul 2010, 23:01

Debaser wrote:Your in Surrey??? People are usually awash with money there, most Surrey residents would only have to look down the back of the sofa to find that sort of money. On the weather, we've had months of almost unbroken sunshine, virtually no rain since March. Its quite eerie to live in London in consistent good weather, and its likely to stay that way for the race.

That's a gross over simplification. Surrey contains Croydon.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 06 Jul 2010, 06:48

Dom wrote:
Debaser wrote:Your in Surrey??? People are usually awash with money there, most Surrey residents would only have to look down the back of the sofa to find that sort of money. On the weather, we've had months of almost unbroken sunshine, virtually no rain since March. Its quite eerie to live in London in consistent good weather, and its likely to stay that way for the race.

That's a gross over simplification. Surrey contains Croydon.

Wrong, it's a London Borough. Only historically part of Surrey. You could have Staines though...

coops · Post by **coops** » 06 Jul 2010, 08:36

Alot is being made already in some newspapers about this being some sort of Brit show down betwixt Hamilton and Button. That pretty much guarantees that neither will feature and Alonso or a RBR driver will dominate.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 08:43

coops wrote:Alot is being made already in some newspapers about this being some sort of Brit show down betwixt Hamilton and Button. That pretty much guarantees that neither will feature and Alonso or Kubica will dominate.

Fixed. Red Bull will find a way to screw up and Kubica has been more epic than HWNSNBM himself this season.
*Prepares for shower of papayas*

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 06 Jul 2010, 08:46

Well last year I remember there being a lot of expectation on Button after dominating the first part of the season and after being trounced by the Red Bulls on home turf, I was quite disappointed.

For the same reason I'll have reservations about the performance of the McLaren, though with rumoured upgrades things should in theory be quite rosy for Hamilton and Button.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 Jul 2010, 09:46

kostas22 wrote:This is a f***ing joke. Giving Webber a hand-me-down chassis which I bet slows him down this weekend. They may claim to have fixed it but I bet you Vettel trounces him this weekend because of it - thats if it even makes the finish before breaking down.

What's the alternative? Give him a repaired version of the chassis he wiped out in when they're not confident it's going to be up to standard? If they rushed the repair job, they could easily make a mistake that would cost Webber half a second per lap. Or worse, they could give him oue that would be unsafe. Just because it's Vettel's old chassis, it does automatically mean that it's a bad one and that Red Bull are showing favouritism - they're just having to do the best they can with what they've got. If Red Bull want to favour Vettel, they're perfectly entitle to - nowhere is it written that they are obligated to treat both drivers equally. But they're obviously not, since they can't prepare a chassis from scratch in less than two weeks and they're not willing to risk rebuilding's Webber's write-off.

And you call yourself a journalist. Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

coops · Post by **coops** » 06 Jul 2010, 10:00

Captain Hammer wrote:Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

We never landed on the moon either.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 10:05

coops wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

We never landed on the moon either.

So the moon could be made up of cheese afterall?

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 06 Jul 2010, 10:15

Wizzie wrote:
coops wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

We never landed on the moon either.

So the moon could be made up of cheese afterall?

Everyone knows the moon's made of cheese

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Jul 2010, 10:36

Brie, cheddar, parmesan, camembert or Stinking Bishop?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 Jul 2010, 10:57

coops wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

We never landed on the moon either.

I'm sorry, but kostas' suggestion that Red Bull are favouring Vettel by giving his old chassis to Webber is ridiculous. If anything, this is a good thing for Webber because if Red Bull are favouring Vettel and always has been, then it stands to reason that Vettel's chassis will be better than Webber's ever was. Therefore, using Vettel's old chassis will be better for Webber than using his own or a new one built for him. If Webber has a bad race, it won't be because Red Bull shafted him.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 06 Jul 2010, 11:01

kostas22 wrote:
mario wrote:Meanwhile, Webber will be getting a replacement chassis for Silverstone. Although Red Bull have repaired the chassis Webber wrecked in Valencia, they don't want to press it into service, and have decided to mkae it the reserve chassis. Instead, Webber will get chassis No. 3; the sharp eyed amongst you might recognise this as Vettel's old chassis, Luscious Liz. It seems that Red Bull have been able to identify what the problem was, and have repaired the chassis, making it race worthy. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85013

This is a f***ing joke. Giving Webber a hand-me-down chassis which I bet slows him down this weekend. They may claim to have fixed it but I bet you Vettel trounces him this weekend because of it - thats if it even makes the finish before breaking down.

They don't seem to feel the need too hide the favouritism anymore, now that it's been out in the open since Turkey.

As per Mario, Vettel got an ex-Webber chassis earlier in the season, so its probably not a big deal.

Although it's interesting that this stuff is newsworthy this season (and to a lesser extend last season) don't ever remember it coming up before.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 Jul 2010, 11:02

Captain Hammer wrote:If anything, this is a good thing for Webber because if Red Bull are favouring Vettel and always has been, then it stands to reason that Vettel's chassis will be better than Webber's ever was. Therefore, using Vettel's old chassis will be better for Webber than using his own or a new one built for him. If Webber has a bad race, it won't be because Red Bull shafted him.

I subscribe to this. Not to the name-calling

It's Parmesan.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 11:53

Captain Hammer wrote:Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

Ah, come on now,we all have 'em:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2976&start=30#p50953

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 Jul 2010, 12:08

Yeah, but I actually had a precedent for that.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Not to the name-calling

I said the idea was stupid - not the person making the idea.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:13

Captain Hammer wrote:
kostas22 wrote:This is a f***ing joke. Giving Webber a hand-me-down chassis which I bet slows him down this weekend. They may claim to have fixed it but I bet you Vettel trounces him this weekend because of it - thats if it even makes the finish before breaking down.

What's the alternative? Give him a repaired version of the chassis he wiped out in when they're not confident it's going to be up to standard? If they rushed the repair job, they could easily make a mistake that would cost Webber half a second per lap. Or worse, they could give him oue that would be unsafe. Just because it's Vettel's old chassis, it does automatically mean that it's a bad one and that Red Bull are showing favouritism - they're just having to do the best they can with what they've got. If Red Bull want to favour Vettel, they're perfectly entitle to - nowhere is it written that they are obligated to treat both drivers equally. But they're obviously not, since they can't prepare a chassis from scratch in less than two weeks and they're not willing to risk rebuilding's Webber's write-off.

And you call yourself a journalist. Get over your stupid conspiracy theories.

I'm sorry, since when was it a crime to have any sort of opinion whatsoever?

It's also rather poor planning by Red Bull - only having one spare chassis between two drivers is a rather risky strategy to have. So yeah, it's too late to do anything about it now, but if they'd started work on a 5th chassis at the beginning of the year this problem wouldn't exist. It's not like they're a small team that doesn't have the resources to like Toro Rosso.

At least my bias has some founding in fact, unlike your never-ending witchhunt against Ferrari. What are you going to do, throw your Jenson Button doll at me from the pram when he inevitably doesn't win on Sunday, and claim Alonso ruined his race somehow?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:16

kostas22 wrote:At least my bias has some founding in fact, unlike your never-ending witchhunt against Ferrari. What are you going to do, throw your Jenson Button doll at me from the pram when he inevitably doesn't win on Sunday, and claim Alonso ruined his race somehow?

Stop it. Witch hunting against Ferrari is nice and proper. Come to think of it, so is it against Red Bull.

Anyway, just invite the Captain out for dinner & a movie, and see if there's chemistry between you. Captain, bring flowers, or chocolates. And both of you, stop ruining the thread.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:19

CarlosFerreira wrote:
kostas22 wrote:At least my bias has some founding in fact, unlike your never-ending witchhunt against Ferrari. What are you going to do, throw your Jenson Button doll at me from the pram when he inevitably doesn't win on Sunday, and claim Alonso ruined his race somehow?

Stop it. Witch hunting against Ferrari is nice and proper. Come to think of it, so is it against Red Bull.

Anyway, just invite the Captain out for dinner & a movie, and see if there's chemistry between you. Captain, bring flowers, or chocolates. And both of you, stop ruining the thread.

Can we go back to discussing cheese now Carlos? :mrgreen:

Personally I like my cheese melted

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:23

CarlosFerreira wrote:
kostas22 wrote:At least my bias has some founding in fact, unlike your never-ending witchhunt against Ferrari. What are you going to do, throw your Jenson Button doll at me from the pram when he inevitably doesn't win on Sunday, and claim Alonso ruined his race somehow?

Stop it. Witch hunting against Ferrari is nice and proper. Come to think of it, so is it against Red Bull.

Anyway, just invite the Captain out for dinner & a movie, and see if there's chemistry between you. Captain, bring flowers, or chocolates. And both of you, stop ruining the thread.

He started it! *Throws toys out of pram*
Damn. Hypocrisy is such a b****.

Any bets on Glock walking out of Virgin after the race? He's only finished one Grand Prix this season, down in 19th or something, right?

@Wizzie Fondue party, Carlos' place? Sounds great :mrgreen:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:28

kostas22 wrote:Any bets on Glock walking out of Virgin after the race? He's only finished one Grand Prix this season, down in 19th or something, right?

Who?

Seriously though I think Schumacher is more likely to be sacked by Mercedes than Glock walking out on Virgin.
Actually scratch that. New conspiracy theory:
Glock to replace Schumacher after Silverstone :mrgreen:

kostas22 wrote:@Wizzie Fondue party, Carlos' place? Sounds great

Count me in :mrgreen:

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:34

Wizzie wrote:Ralf to replace Michael after Silverstone

Fix'd

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:43

Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:@Wizzie Fondue party, Carlos' place? Sounds great

Count me in

It's been a week since last party with friends in my place. My pleasure, guys! :mrgreen:

I reckon Glock's market value has gone through the floor. Merc would never choose him now, neither would any other team. And I also imagine The Schu is about to mount a comeback.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 06 Jul 2010, 13:56

kostas22 wrote:Any bets on Glock walking out of Virgin after the race? He's only finished one Grand Prix this season, down in 19th or something, right?

If he does I wonder who would slot into the Virgin in Germany? :!:

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 06 Jul 2010, 14:24

noisebox wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Any bets on Glock walking out of Virgin after the race? He's only finished one Grand Prix this season, down in 19th or something, right?

If he does I wonder who would slot into the Virgin in Germany?

I dunno why, but you get the feeling JV would - given half the chance. Well, he just seems the sort, eh?

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 06 Jul 2010, 15:03

kowalski wrote:
noisebox wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Any bets on Glock walking out of Virgin after the race? He's only finished one Grand Prix this season, down in 19th or something, right?

If he does I wonder who would slot into the Virgin in Germany?

I dunno why, but you get the feeling JV would - given half the chance. Well, he just seems the sort, eh?

Would the Virgin want JV though?

coops · Post by **coops** » 06 Jul 2010, 15:09

kostas22 wrote:I'm sorry, since when was it a crime to have any sort of opinion whatsoever?

If you said you thought the Jonas Brothers were cool that should get you arrested.

And I get the impression JV would drive frigging anything to get back into F1 because he still believes...

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 06 Jul 2010, 16:49

Captain Hammer wrote:Yeah, but I actually had a precedent for that.

I don't think a conspiracy theory is any more valid or less stupid just because it's been around for longer. Anyway, get with the programme, granddad - the FIA favouring Ferrari is so old hat, it's all about Red Bull favouring Vettel now, that's the crap du jour.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 06 Jul 2010, 16:56

coops wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I'm sorry, since when was it a crime to have any sort of opinion whatsoever?

If you said you thought the Jonas Brothers were cool that should get you arrested.

And I get the impression JV would drive frigging anything to get back into F1 because he still believes...

Well, he said anything with a plan. And by that everything else than HRT...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Jul 2010, 17:11

coops wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I'm sorry, since when was it a crime to have any sort of opinion whatsoever?

If you said you thought the Jonas Brothers were cool that should get you arrested.

OK yeah, you're right with that one. Same goes for people who thought the Sinclar C5 would be a revolution in personal transportation.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 06 Jul 2010, 17:19

Glock's signed a lengthy three year contract though I believe so I don't think he'll bother going anywhere soon, especially as Carlos pointed out, his value has been shafted now even di Grassi is starting to show him up.

Post by **mario** » 06 Jul 2010, 18:32

I leave this thread for just one day, and the conversation seems to have turned to Jacques Villeneuve, fondue parties, conspiracy theories and dating advice for some of the more testy figures on the forum. :lol:

On a more serious (and relevant) point, we have got more news on who is bringing what to Silverstone. Firstly, Force India intend on bringing an updated front wing and front floor set up. That, along with updates to their F-duct (which they call a switchable rear wing, or SRW) means that they are pretty sure that they can be in the top 10 http://www.f1technical.net/news/15086?s ... 149037584d At the very least, they expect that they should have a fairly healthy top speed now they have got the SWR working better.

News from further back on the grid - Lotus are bringing a very large update package this weekend, as this will effectively be it for development of the T127 (the team wil now focus their efforts on the 2011 T128). According to Gascoyne, we can expect new radiators, a modified floor and diffuser, modifications to the rear bodywork (which Gascoyne is particularly pleased about), and a whole raft of lightweight parts (such as lighter suspension components etc), so the team will have some ballast to play with to alter the weight distribution. http://www.f1technical.net/news/15088?s ... 149037584d
All in all, it looks like this should give Lotus a really big boost in performance - it might still be a bit much for them to catch the pack, but this could well bring them a fair few tenths of a second closer.
Couple that to the upgrades Cosworth has been making to their engine (which is part of the reason Williams have ben quite bullish about this coming weekend - especially since Cosworth are getting on top of the problems which causedthe engine performance to drop off too quickly, and made the torque curve much broader as well), and I think that this weekend has the potential to be the best weekend for Lotus in terms of performance on merit.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 Jul 2010, 18:44

mario wrote:News from further back on the grid - Lotus are bringing a very large update package this weekend, as this will effectively be it for development of the T127 (the team wil now focus their efforts on the 2011 T128). According to Gascoyne, we can expect new radiators, a modified floor and diffuser, modifications to the rear bodywork (which Gascoyne is particularly pleased about), and a whole raft of lightweight parts (such as lighter suspension components etc), so the team will have some ballast to play with to alter the weight distribution. http://www.f1technical.net/news/15088?s ... 149037584d
All in all, it looks like this should give Lotus a really big boost in performance - it might still be a bit much for them to catch the pack, but this could well bring them a fair few tenths of a second closer.
Couple that to the upgrades Cosworth has been making to their engine (which is part of the reason Williams have ben quite bullish about this coming weekend - especially since Cosworth are getting on top of the problems which causedthe engine performance to drop off too quickly, and made the torque curve much broader as well), and I think that this weekend has the potential to be the best weekend for Lotus in terms of performance on merit.

Lotus really are making themselves proud this season. I am seriously impressed, they're working like the teams ahead of them.