2021 Discussion Thread
Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
I think many of us who are pre-Netflix (let's put it that way) are too used to Safety Cars being a fact of life in Formula 1. And don't see their overuse as something negative or positive. We saw Vettel win a championship under SC conditions.
Many people tuning into Channel 4 for the first time to see a title showdown for the ages will likely be surprised at how a backmarker's accident can either turn the race into a procession, or impact the frontrunner's race especially so severely. Many objective viewers who aren't used to motorsport may wonder how a sport that sells itself as being competitive can allow for such a total reset. We saw (poor) analogies with football, as if someone was 9-0 up and the ref had declared a penalty shootout.
The solution though is not Masi's, which is to chop and change in order to favour an exciting end of Safety Car conditions. Really what takagi was saying as a scenario, where Masi green flags the race for the last lap but with the back-markers in between Lewis and Max, is actually the most logical solution the dilemna under the current rules. This is because Hamilton earned the right to have those 4 cars between him and Max at a safety car restart through sheer pace, and the rules seem to allow the Race Director to evaluate that it would take too long for everyone to unlap and give a green flag despite protocol dictating otherwise.
More generally though, I do think what this race should do is act as a catalyst for re-introducing the ban on pitting during the SC period, or some form of mechanism that reduces the advantage of the SC for everyone but the front runner.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
TheBigJ wrote:Really what takagi was saying as a scenario, where Masi green flags the race for the last lap but with the back-markers in between Lewis and Max, is actually the most logical solution the dilemna under the current rules.
I forgot to say it, but this is my personal opinion as well for what should have been done. I'm not as certain what should be done in the future, perhaps stick with it, or perhaps a better idea can be found.
In a perfect world I would probably agree with the proposal below...
TheBigJ wrote:More generally though, I do think what this race should do is act as a catalyst for re-introducing the ban on pitting during the SC period
...But there are problems that would come with it. The main thing is that there would certainly be a safety exception to the ban. In other words the rule would say that entering the pit lane under safety car conditions is prohibited unless there is a safety issue. So for example, a car on old tires will pit because they say they fear there is too high a chance of tire failure. Well ok fine, but a car on tires a lap or two newer can say that the risk (while smaller) is still too great and they must pit too. And so on. In other words, it's probably even harder to be fair than the current policy with the open pit lane. I'm glad you brought it up though and if there is an answer to the problem, it's certainly viable.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
Of course neither this nor the current solutions address the seeming unfairness of wiping out a legitimate gap one car may have earned over the car(s) behind it. I should say that the virtual safety car does preserve the gap, but doesn't make it possible to clear a car that is stopped on the track proper.
I'm also just realizing how specific this all is. See, if Latifi had crashed 1-2 laps earlier, they would have cleared the lapped cars through legally under the current rules and the result would have been essentially what we got. If Latifi had crashed 1-2 laps later, the race would absolutely have finished behind the safety car and Hamilton would have won.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
Speaking of the VSC I honestly think from now it will become more and more the norm (with red flag situations covering a large chunk of old Safety Car situations).
Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
In my opinion, where the cars end up after the safety car is out, is where they end up. But I suppose that's digressing from the main point we're all talking about...
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I'd really like to get everyone's input on the race ending and what should be done in future. As the rules are currently written, it seems that there were 3 options once Latifi crashed.
1. Finish the race under the safety car
2. Restart with lapped cars in place (i.e. the five cars between Max and Lewis)
3. Red flag the race and restart so there were a few laps left and everyone got the opportunity to change tires etc.
The consensus on the forum seems to be that what had happened was not allowed the way the rules are currently written. So two questions I'd like answered.
1. Which of the three options should have been done on Sunday?
2. In future, which of the three (or some new option you come up with) should be done in a similar situation?
I suppose one item that is worth considering is what exactly the definition of the race director is, and how that position relates to those around them.
The race director is intended to sit above the clerk of the course as the most senior official. If a race director is not present, then the duties of the clerk of the course are to monitor the track conditions, supervise the marshals and emergency services, control the deployment of the safety car and decide upon suspending a session.
If a race director is present, then the clerk of the course is technically subordinate to the race director and, whilst still having those duties, can only exercise them at the discretion of the race director.
As can be seen, the question of "what is the most entertaining method for resolving the race" is not really meant to be entering the equation. The main duties for the race director is for the safe and efficient running of the race and ensuring that the race is undertaken in compliance with the applicable regulations; entertainment value shouldn't intrude there, and why Masi's comments about wanting to ensure an entertaining finish run counter to the entire purpose of his role.
If we look at the situation in terms of the purely administrative process, if it was clear that the clean up operations were going to run into lap 57, it would effectively mean that Masi should then make preparations for the race to finish under safety car conditions, given that article 48.12 would then indicate the safety car shouldn't be withdrawn until the following lap (which would be the final lap).
Whilst I accept that might be seen as anti-climactic, my take is that it would be in accordance with the regulations that outline what the race director or clerk of the course should do in those circumstances.
Now, if Masi wanted to restart the race quickly, but did not want to have to wait for the lapped cars to unlap themselves, then the next option would have been to restart the race without letting the lapped cars unlap themselves (i.e. the second option on your list).
Under the regulations, there is no explicit requirement for the race director to have to order lapped cars out of the way - the regulations state they may do so, but it is at their discretion whether or not they allow that to happen.
In that situation, article 48.12 of the sporting regulations would not need to be applied and thus there would be no need for the race director to wait until the end of the following lap - they could go straight to article 48.13, which would have allowed Masi to withdraw the safety car at the end of lap 57 without having to wait another lap. It would mean Max would have been further back on the track, but it would have also complied with the regulations and would have meant that Masi didn't have to allow additional time for the lapped cars to move out of the way.
With regards to using a red flag, it would technically be permitted by the race director, but it certainly would be a rather contrived and clumsy approach that might not have been hugely popular either. I am not sure that the situation on track did necessarily warrant a red flag, and I am not sure it would have been looked on positively as it might have come across as a bit too contrived.
Now, if we accept that Masi is ultimately doing something that, in my opinion, he shouldn't have been doing and paying too much attention to what was the "more entertaining" scenario, rather than the safest or most efficient, but still wanted to act within the regulations, then I think that the approach that might most closely fit with what Masi wanted to do, yet would still remain within the regulations, would have been the second option (i.e. restarting without letting the lapped cars unlap themselves).
If he went down that route, he could still have his final lap shoot out, yet would still comply with the rules by negating the need for an additional lap by waiting for the lapped cars to unlap themselves.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread
Mercedes are not going ahead with the appeal. It seems the comission has been part of a deal made between the manufacturer and the FIA, to be honest. I can see why they are not following, but I think they had a decent strong case. I don't think we've seen the last of this history and I imagine heads will still roll (mainly, Michael Masi's head).
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