The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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Salamander
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Salamander »

AndreaModa wrote:I guess it's more of an American thing but for the uninitiated (like me) it's impossible to follow who is driving for which team because of the different liveries. By the end I had sussed that Kanaan and Dixon were both Ganassi drivers and obviously with broadly the same liveries Power and Montoya were Penske teammates, but certainly for the smaller teams who received less coverage (because the race was effectively Penske vs. Ganassi) I haven't got a clue. It's obviously for sponsorship reasons and as I said, maybe more of a traditional American thing but it would be so much easier if teams ran similar liveries to make it easy for the casual viewer to understand.


In American motorsports, teammates are less of an important thing - you're out for your own team, comprised of the people who work on your car and no others. You might race a teammate easier than anyone else, of course, but you'll never see team orders or anything remotely approaching it.

That said, the car Kanaan drives was once a Target-branded car like Dixon's still is - but naturally with the recession that was unaffordable, especially since IndyCar is a second-rate series in terms of viewership when compared with NASCAR. But even there, sponsors are one-to-a-car, and you'll frequently see a single driver run different liveries for different sponsors for x amount of races because very few companies can even afford a full season anymore, so while I do sympathise with you there - sometimes even I can't tell who is who at a glance - it's just not financially feasible.

The racing, if I'm honest, wasn't that great. It appeared heavily reliant on the pitstop 'cycles' for anyone to make any real progress, though this could of course be down to the track just as much as the cars/drivers. The last few laps were tense though, especially when it appeared Montoya was making inroads into Briscoe. Definitely the best part of the race.


Sonoma isn't great for IndyCar racing to be honest. If you want to see IndyCar's best on a road course, I can highly recommend this year's race from Barber. The oval races might not be to your taste, but if you're interested, Fontana was a very tense and very closely fought race at 200+ mph with at least 4 or 5 cars competing for the lead at any point.

Was there ANYONE watching in the stands at the race itself? I've seen numerous tweets this year about how IndyCar viewing figures on TV in the States are rising steadily which is good news, but my word I couldn't see any significant crowds at the track. Maybe the location isn't great? Either way that needs to be addressed because it can't be good for the premier open wheel series in the US to get what appeared to be such poor crowds at the season finale.


If you think that was bad, you should've seen Fontana. Like only 500 people turned up to that, and no, I'm not exaggerating. You have to realise - spectator attendance in America for motorsports is pretty poor, and for IndyCar, positively dire. Even NASCAR struggles to fill the stands at most racetracks nowadays.

That said, viewing figures on TV have been improving - Sonoma was the highest viewed race IndyCar has ever had on NBCSN - by a good 200k as well.

Also, I've seen this mentioned elsewhere but why is the series ending in August?!


Because Mark Miles is an idiot and thinks that IndyCar is competing with the NFL. No, I don't have a clue either. Thankfully, the series should be ending in mid-September next year if I've heard correctly - couple with an earlier start in March, it'll still be a short season but better than the 5-month farce of a schedule we've had for the past 2 years.

Finally, just how bad are costs and budgets currently in IndyCar? I get the whole need for a spec chassis to save costs and help the smaller guys but for me it cheapens the series to some degree.


IndyCar has been spec-chassis since 2009. They had spec-engines from 2006-2011 as well - not by design, but because only Honda saw any value in supplying engines. Champ Car was spec-engines for the last few years, with spec-chassis soon following.

The reason is pretty simple actually - there's only one third-party chassis manufacturer with the capacity to supply IndyCar, and that's Dallara. Reynard went bust, Lola went bust, Panoz/G-Force pulled out... and the only team that ever was able to build their own chassis' was Penske, and they stopped doing that after a disastrous 1998 and 1999.

The aero kits exist (I think) because people was complaining about things being nothing like the good old days where the cars looked different. Obviously nobody was going to step up to provide a different base chassis, so instead IndyCar got Honda and Chevy to develop their own aero kits. After a few teething problems earlier this year, they seem to be balancing out a bit, but Honda are still at a bit of a disadvantage, and to be honest, I still don't see the point - the cars looked better as the stock DW12. The reason why it has fenders, by the way, is to stop wheels from interlocking and causing horrendous accidents. This tends to happen a lot more often in a series which has very close racing with single-seaters - which IndyCar does.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by girry »

Yeah, the finances are THAT bad. Even a spec DW12 required something akin to the lines to 5 million euros to run for a season, and now the costs shot up again because of the aerokits. And yeah, it would be cool to have a non-spec series and all, but then we'd have roughly Penskes, Ganassis, an Andretti and a ride buyer in the series very soon.

As for the crowds, it wasn't THAT bad, considering the "popularity" IndyCar has enjoyed in the American general public for the last 10 years.. (it's on a good tide within the small group of enthusiasts now though)
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by MartinJS81 »

Different cars in the same team having different liveries is nothing new in IndyCar, the terminology is always of an owner running three teams, rather than a team running three cars. More often than not they have their own sponsors who follow them through their careers, and often their own crew.

I don't like double points, and I was rooting for Montoya all season, but they both knew the rules in advance, and at least the double-points races were the 500 and perhaps THE classic US road course.

I hate seeing such low attendances compared to NBA and NFL (and soccer to an extent), wish I knew the answer. A longer season would help though, so maybe 2016 will be the start of a recovery.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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MartinJS81 wrote:I hate seeing such low attendances compared to NBA and NFL (and soccer to an extent), wish I knew the answer. A longer season would help though, so maybe 2016 will be the start of a recovery.


The thing I can't understand about the attendances is this - America is a large, populous country. The car has always been a big part of American life since WW2. There have been many famous American motorsport heroes across all disciplines, and yet motorsport seems to struggle so much.

Put it this way - World Superbikes used to be massive in Britain. You'd get 100,000+ trying to pile into Brands Hatch in the late 90s. In recent years it's fallen off a cliff because the organisation went down the pan and everyone got into MotoGP a lot more (myself included). Yet even this year at Donington they still got approximately 20,000 turning up for a series with next to no exposure in the public realm - certainly no free TV coverage and nothing in mainstream media, despite the fact six of the top seven riders this year come from the UK.

Compare that to the average attendance for a Premier League game these days which I'm guessing is probably around the 35,000 figure when you factor in the different stadium sizes. It puts it into perspective that they can still pull in 20,000 for a series that few care about any more.

I can't work out why IndyCar struggles to get bums on seats for that reason. Even amongst those die-hard fans there must be a core audience they can tap into. It seems odd really.

Also - appreciate the responses to my ramblings earlier on. Very informative, thanks!
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Miguel98 »

Well, World Superbikes, are at least in Portugal, broadcasted live by Eurosport. I guess that doesn't happen in Britain, since Eurosport is free to view (at least, here)?
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Salamander »

AndreaModa wrote:I can't work out why IndyCar struggles to get bums on seats for that reason. Even amongst those die-hard fans there must be a core audience they can tap into. It seems odd really.


It's really all down to two things. The recession means that a lot of people don't have the disposable income to go far out of their way to attend a race. This itself wouldn't be too bad, if it wasn't for the split which drove most of the more casual race fans to follow NASCAR instead.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Wallio »

There's also the fact that actual attendance figures, for any sporting event, but especially racing, mean jack squat. TV is where the money is. Look at the NFL for example by rule a stadium can have no less than 60,000 seats (with two grandfathered exceptions) while most stadiums hold 80-85k and Dallas' holds about 102k. That's a decent amount of revenue no doubt, but the NFL made $7.24 billion in TV revenue last year! That means that each team made $226.4 million before even starting the season a profit before day 1!

Racing is no different. NBCSN paid Indycar 5.5 million dollars a year the first few years of its contract, and about 8 million this year. 2017 and 2018 (the last two years) are worth $10 million each or about $480,000 per team. Plus Indycar charges each track (except IMS of course) a six figure sanction fee. So attendance money (which must be split with the track) means little. That's why Indy's high TV numbers are good, it will make NBC think about renewing, and for more money.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by AndreaModa »

Of course, all major sports have known for a long time now that TV is where the money is. Look at MotoGP - happy to go without decent viewing figures in the UK and instead hoover up the money thrown at them from BT Sport.

But we've all said this about F1 before - races in front of empty stands look crap and paint a negative image of the sport. It can't be great for driver motivation either come to think of it. However they decide to do it, IndyCar needs to work out a way of making their live product offering as attractive as possible to all sections of society.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Wallio »

NBC and RACER are both reporting that Pocono will return, and Phoenix is a done deal, although neither track has confirmed officially. Indycar has also confirmed there will be no Brazil or Mexico race this year.

So Indycar's schedule looks, pretty much the same. Nothing official is out yet, but here's what we know (in no order).

St. Pete
Barber
Long Beach
Indy GP
Indy
Detroit
Toronto
Iowa
Road America (New)
Texas
Pocono
Boston (New)
Phoenix (New)
Sonoma


Pretty weak. Fontana, NOLA, and Milawakee are all confirmed out, so its basically the same "last week of March til Labor Day" crap of this year.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by LolLola »

St. Pete - Road
Barber - Road
Long Beach - Street
Indy GP - Road
Indy - Oval
Detroit - Street
Toronto - Street
Iowa - Oval
Road America (New) - Road
Texas - Oval
Pocono - Oval
Boston (New) - Street
Phoenix (New) - Oval
Sonoma - Road

Not enough ovals
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Dj_bereta »

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ ... o-justify/

I have to agree with Schmidt, especially about the Aero Kits, which for me, isn't worth and leave the tracks full of debris. Almost half of the grid cars are from Penske, Ganassi and Andretti. The grid size still good, but could shrink in a blink, like Schmidt said.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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LolLola wrote:Not enough ovals



I'll second that. Especially short ovals. I miss Richmond.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by AndreaModa »

Dj_bereta wrote:Almost half of the grid cars are from Penske, Ganassi and Andretti. The grid size still good, but could shrink in a blink, like Schmidt said.


I second that. I don't know much about Indycar but relying on just a handful of chassis builders leaves the series very exposed if one of them pulls out. Same principle as is currently the case with F1 engines.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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Dj_bereta wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/schmidt-indycar-costs-are-virtually-impossible-to-justify/

I have to agree with Schmidt, especially about the Aero Kits, which for me, isn't worth and leave the tracks full of debris. Almost half of the grid cars are from Penske, Ganassi and Andretti. The grid size still good, but could shrink in a blink, like Schmidt said.


I wonder if a return to Surfer's Paradise has even been considered in the last 4-5 years. That would really be something.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Dj_bereta »

Kannan confirmed for another year with Ganassi. No surprise, since he isn't doing bad and there aren't good options to replace him to be frank. The only driver that I think could replace Kannan is Bourdais.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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I would like to propose that we pay homage to Justin Wilson as we have Marco Simoncelli by renaming this thread The Justin Wilson IndyCar Thread.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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Justin Wilson is being missed by all of us for sure. RIP.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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It's looking like Aleshin will be back at Schmidt full-time for next season. IndyCar just got a heck of a lot more exciting. :D

And in news which will excite a certain amphibious member of the forums, Conor Daly reckons he's close to a deal to drive for Dale Coyne full-time in 2016
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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East Londoner wrote:It's looking like Aleshin will be back at Schmidt full-time for next season. IndyCar just got a heck of a lot more exciting. :D

And in news which will excite a certain amphibious member of the forums, Conor Daly reckons he's close to a deal to drive for Dale Coyne full-time in 2016


http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ ... n-clauson/ And it's confirmed.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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Same punishment as Franck Montagny seems apt...
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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dr-baker wrote:

Same punishment as Franck Montagny seems apt...

Someone called?
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Londoner »

Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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racer.com wrote:...the Formula 1 veteran...


:lol:
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Yannick »

More on the Rafa Matos doping case ... from last year:
http://www.motorsport.com/stockcar-br/n ... umors/?s=1

It's sad that this stock photo of the hairstylist from Barcelona, Franck Montagny, speaks volumes. Here's hoping he has conquered his drug problem since receiving the career-ending ban.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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golic_2004 wrote:Conor Daly reckons he's close to a deal to drive for Dale Coyne full-time in 2016

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ ... n-clauson/ And it's confirmed.


That's a smart business decision by Dale Coyne: an up-and-coming, talented youngster / twisties specialist for the full season and an oval specialist for Indy: and they are both funded!
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Salamander »

Yannick wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:Conor Daly reckons he's close to a deal to drive for Dale Coyne full-time in 2016

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ ... n-clauson/ And it's confirmed.


That's a smart business decision by Dale Coyne: an up-and-coming, talented youngster / twisties specialist for the full season and an oval specialist for Indy: and they are both funded!


>Implying Bryan Clauson is anything approaching useful in an IndyCar
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Samster »



Well he is of course an F1 reject and Nissan have just made him a WEC reject. Could he now add Indycar reject to his prestigious resume? :D
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Samster wrote:


Well he is of course an F1 reject and Nissan have just made him a WEC reject. Could he now add Indycar reject to his prestigious resume? :D

Not only that, but he could complete the Triple Crown of Rejectdom if he races at Indy and finishes outside the top four! :D
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Peteroli34 »

Simtek wrote:
Not only that, but he could complete the Triple Crown of Rejectdom if he races at Indy and finishes outside the top four! :D
.

Now there's a ponder. Only one driver has completed the Triple Clown, How many are Rejects in all 3
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by dr-baker »

peteroli34 wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Not only that, but he could complete the Triple Crown of Rejectdom if he races at Indy and finishes outside the top four! :D
.

Now there's a ponder. Only one driver has completed the Triple Clown, How many are Rejects in all 3

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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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The Triple Clown!

It may have been unintentional but that HAS to be a part of this site in some form or another. Just brilliant!
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by dr-baker »

AndreaModa wrote:The Triple Clown!

It may have been unintentional but that HAS to be a part of this site in some form or another. Just brilliant!

Graham Hill has the triple crown. Whoever is a reject in all three has the triple clown?
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

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dr-baker wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:The Triple Clown!

It may have been unintentional but that HAS to be a part of this site in some form or another. Just brilliant!

Graham Hill has the triple crown. Whoever is a reject in all three has the triple clown?


Exactly!
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by girry »

Triple Clowns with their best finishes from each race:

Chuck Daigh USA - Monaco dnq / Indy dnq / Le Mans ret
Hector Rebaque MEX - Monaco dnq / Indy ret / Le Mans ret
Shinji Nakano JPN - Monaco 9th / Indy ret / Le Mans 14th
Mike Spence GBR - Monaco 6th / Indy dnq / Le Mans ret* - lost his life during Indy qualifying attempt

Remarkably, to my calculations all other 49 drivers who have taken part in each leg of the triple crown have managed to unrejectify themselves - and even of the unrejectified only Bondurant, Daly, Schell, Moreno, Grouillard, Villoresi & Wilson didn't manage to climb on the podium on at least one of the legs!
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

giraurd wrote:Triple Clowns with their best finishes from each race:

Chuck Daigh USA - Monaco dnq / Indy dnq / Le Mans ret
Hector Rebaque MEX - Monaco dnq / Indy ret / Le Mans ret
Shinji Nakano JPN - Monaco 9th / Indy ret / Le Mans 14th
Mike Spence GBR - Monaco 6th / Indy dnq / Le Mans ret* - lost his life during Indy qualifying attempt

Remarkably, to my calculations all other 49 drivers who have taken part in each leg of the triple crown have managed to unrejectify themselves - and even of the unrejectified only Bondurant, Daly, Schell, Moreno, Grouillard, Villoresi & Wilson didn't manage to climb on the podium on at least one of the legs!

Actually, I've found at least 8 other drivers that fit the bill (looking at Indy 500 results as far back as 1963). Some are only eligible if extending the criteria to the F1 World Championship, as the Triple Crown sometimes is:

Bruno Giacomelli ITA - Monaco DNF / Indy DNQ / Le Mans 9th
Walt Hansgen USA - F1 5th / Indy 13th / Le Mans DNF - killed in Le Mans testing
Rupert Keegan GBR - Monaco 12th / Indy DNQ / Le Mans 5th
Teddy Pilette BEL - F1 17th / Indy DNQ / Le Mans 8th
Harry Schell USA - Monaco 5th / Indy DNQ / Le Mans 6th
Vincenzo Sospiri ITA - F1 DNQ / Indy 17th / Le Mans DNF
Jacques Villeneuve, Sr. CAN - F1 DNQ / Indy DNF / Le Mans DNF
Desiré Wilson RSA - F1 DNQ / Indy DNQ / Le Mans 7th
Justin Wilson GBR - Monaco DNF / Indy 5th / Le Mans DNF

And now I'm quite sure the list is complete.
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Bleu »

From the previous list, Villeneuve Sr., D.Wilson and Sospiri never even try to qualify for the Monaco GP so they can't be counted.
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Bobby Doorknobs
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Bleu wrote:From the previous list, Villeneuve Sr., D.Wilson and Sospiri never even try to qualify for the Monaco GP so they can't be counted.

Simtek wrote:Some are only eligible if extending the criteria to the F1 World Championship, as the Triple Crown sometimes is:
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girry
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by girry »

Had missed Hansgen, and hadn't included those with a best finish of DNQ in indy for some brainfart on my part. And as for JW, just thought he sorta didn't count, either (although technically he probably should). Thanks :mrgreen:
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Londoner
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Re: The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Post by Londoner »

Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
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