2016 Silly Season Thread

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 07 Oct 2015, 02:42

novitopoli wrote:Looks like we're gonna miss Bernie quite soon.

Sepp Blatter ALLEGEDLY has a lot of spare cash he needs to launder?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 07 Oct 2015, 05:17

FMecha wrote:Mercedes in favor of 3-car teams

I believe this is just an excuse to keep their domination as well as that they're supporting RBR leaving the sport.

And it gives Herr Wehrlein an instant debut at Mercedes, if this goes forward.

Post by **tommykl** » 07 Oct 2015, 07:03

Spectoremg wrote:
novitopoli wrote:Looks like we're gonna miss Bernie quite soon.
Sepp Blatter ALLEGEDLY has a lot of spare cash he needs to launder?

FIFA to buy Formula One and re-launch A1GP. You heard it here first.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 07 Oct 2015, 11:28

tommykl wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:
novitopoli wrote:Looks like we're gonna miss Bernie quite soon.
Sepp Blatter ALLEGEDLY has a lot of spare cash he needs to launder?

FIFA to buy Formula One and re-launch A1GP. You heard it here first.

No, it'll be SuperA1LeagueGP, an amalgam of A1GP and SuperLeague, and it will be The World Cup of Top Gear car football. Clarkson, Hammond and May will referee the matches and film a behind-the-scenes montage for their new show (having bribed Bernie a fortune for the "privilege"). VW will supply the cars to cash in on the popularity of the Clarkson/Hammond/May show, and will pay Bernie a fortune for the "privilege" of being the sole chassis supplier to the series. Sky Sports will pay over the odds for exclusive live TV rights (to Bernie of course) to ensure that the series only gains a limited audience (beyond the ex-Top Gear hosts' new show, but that audience won't realise that it wasn't just a show montage feature, thinking the whole thing was scripted and made exclusively as highlights for that show). And none of this will be available on YouTube, Facebook or Twitter, etc., because Bernie.

And it will all last for about as long as the GP Masters series.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 09 Oct 2015, 04:37

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/features/34454559
Lewis 'Lagerfeld' Hamilton wants to design race circuits.
When you and Ernst Blofeld rule the world you can do anything you like Lewis!

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 09 Oct 2015, 08:44

Spectoremg wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/features/34454559
Lewis 'Lagerfeld' Hamilton wants to design race circuits.
When you and Ernst Blofeld rule the world you can do anything you like Lewis!

I really think Hamilton needs to employ some sort of Media guy/gal to sit with him during these blue-sky-thinking interviews he does. Someone to gently say "Remember how we talked about the real world verses the imaginary world Lewis?"

girry · Post by **girry** » 09 Oct 2015, 11:14

Why not? Lewis could be a great racetrack designer for all we know, and I say this without sarcasm. Its the drivers who know the best, after all.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 09 Oct 2015, 11:48

Wouldn't surprise me if that entire column was ghost-written by some fresh-faced graduate in a back office somewhere.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 09 Oct 2015, 12:14

I would like to see a circuit made by Hamilton. He is not that wrong in that drivers can add a bit of emotion and feeling to the "robotic" and mostly soulless tracks nowadays being, of course, well advised by some Engineers. Drivers are the ones who actually get closer to the race track.

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Oct 2015, 12:17

I sincerely doubt Hamilton's input would go any further than drawing a squiggly line on a piece of paper and loudly proclaiming "NO MORE TARMAC RUNOFF!"

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Oct 2015, 12:29

Hamilton actually designed his own track back in 2008. It was about what you'd expect.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 09 Oct 2015, 14:04

We need more power circuits.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:07

SuzukiSwift wrote:We need more power circuits.

Yeah, Monza's been such a fantastic race the past couple years, hasn't it?

LolLola · Post by **LolLola** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:15

Salamander wrote:
SuzukiSwift wrote:We need more power circuits.

Yeah, Monza's been such a fantastic race the past couple years, hasn't it?

Yes yes yes, YES! Please continue with the hate of tradition.

MONZA MUST BE KEPT ON F1 FOREVER

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:19

DanielPT wrote:I would like to see a circuit made by Hamilton. He is not that wrong in that drivers can add a bit of emotion and feeling to the "robotic" and mostly soulless tracks nowadays being, of course, well advised by some Engineers. Drivers are the ones who actually get closer to the race track.

Only flaw in that reasoning is that Hermann Tilke himself was a racing driver.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:26

LolLola wrote:
Salamander wrote:
SuzukiSwift wrote:We need more power circuits.

Yeah, Monza's been such a fantastic race the past couple years, hasn't it?

Yes yes yes, YES! Please continue with the hate of tradition.

MONZA MUST BE KEPT ON F1 FOREVER

Please explain to me how making a sarcastic remark on how Monza has been having dull races, means that I hate tradition and think Monza should be replaced?

The point was, more power circuits just means more easy easy easy wins for Mercedes - I thought we didn't want that?

LolLola · Post by **LolLola** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:36

Because your sentence sounds like it. Great you clear the misunderstanding

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 09 Oct 2015, 15:41

Simtek wrote:Only flaw in that reasoning is that Hermann Tilke himself was a racing driver.

I stand corrected then. Still like to see an Hamilton design circuit in real life even if is just for funsies and for the sake of having someone else besides Tilke have a go a it.

Salamander wrote:The point was, more power circuits just means more easy easy easy wins for Mercedes - I thought we didn't want that?

Right now yes. But as soon as Red Bull or whoever starts wining in slower, twistier circuits it will make for it giving a chance to others. Different circuit characteristics means some changes in the pecking order. Sure the new circuits are different, but having different people design them would lead to even more differences.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 09 Oct 2015, 16:09

I just like em because in reality there is really only 2 of those left (Monza and Spa). I suppose you could include the Austria.

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Oct 2015, 16:31

As has been said before, the problem isn't the circuits themselves, it's that they're all the same. Teams build their cars for Tilkedromes because they know they're the majority, and being the best there is essentially guaranteeing the title. The best thing to have would be a spectrum between Monza and Monaco with tracks evenly spaced on that spectrum, rather than have Spa and Monza at one end, Monaco and Singapore at the other, and every other track slap bang in the middle.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 09 Oct 2015, 16:47

AndreaModa wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if that entire column was ghost-written by some fresh-faced graduate in a back office somewhere.

It crossed my mind too, what with Da Gansta being so busy with fashion and music and dreaming up race circuits.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Oct 2015, 17:04

tommykl wrote:As has been said before, the problem isn't the circuits themselves, it's that they're all the same. Teams build their cars for Tilkedromes because they know they're the majority, and being the best there is essentially guaranteeing the title. The best thing to have would be a spectrum between Monza and Monaco with tracks evenly spaced on that spectrum, rather than have Spa and Monza at one end, Monaco and Singapore at the other, and every other track slap bang in the middle.

That's why I also apprwciated having the old Hockenheim circuit on the calendar. More tracks at that end of the spwctrum. Made it worthwhile having a separate low downforce package, shaking up the grid again a little.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 10 Oct 2015, 22:56

tommykl wrote:As has been said before, the problem isn't the circuits themselves, it's that they're all the same. Teams build their cars for Tilkedromes because they know they're the majority, and being the best there is essentially guaranteeing the title. The best thing to have would be a spectrum between Monza and Monaco with tracks evenly spaced on that spectrum, rather than have Spa and Monza at one end, Monaco and Singapore at the other, and every other track slap bang in the middle.

But it's not even that, a strong car will rise to the top on most circuits - look at the MP4/4.

The problem is far bigger. As far as the competitive order is concerned, the single worst rule since 2009 has been the restrictions on testing and on engine development. The best cars/engines are frozen in and locked, and everyone else has to just participate, in the hope their off-season development is enough to catch up next year. That's why Monza was boring for you Salamander, because such was Mercedes' dominance and because the race was largely a forgone conclusion. It's the same reason why Ben Edwards was able to confidently declare with a full minute of qualifying remaining that Rosberg had secured pole position for tomorrow's race. It's the same reason why year after year, until these new engine regulations came in, that Newey and Red Bull constantly had a few tenths at least over everyone else. Frozen development locks in a competitive order and brings complete predictability to the races and the championship. Look at the current top eight places in the drivers' championship and tell me you don't know what the general competitive order has been in F1 over the past two years.

Remove the barriers on testing and development, put a price cap on all supplier deals (engines, tyres, etc) and let the teams spend and do what they want. Simple.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Oct 2015, 18:28

K-Mag is leaving McLaren. I wager that he's about to sign to Haas, only to be replaced by Max Verstappen halfway through his second year with the team. I don't know why, I just get the feeling that that sort of thing might happen

Post by **Londoner** » 15 Oct 2015, 19:10

Simtek wrote:K-Mag is leaving McLaren. I wager that he's about to sign to Haas, only to be replaced by Max Verstappen halfway through his second year with the team. I don't know why, I just get the feeling that that sort of thing might happen

I hope he gets the Haas seat, mainly on the basis there was a rumourthat Gutierrez was strutting around the paddock around the time Grosjean was announced at Haas, telling all and sundry that he'd got the second Haas seat. That would be instant karma.

And well, a Grosjean-Mags line-up would be infinitely stronger than one with Gutierrez in it...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 16 Oct 2015, 06:56

East Londoner wrote:And well, a Grosjean-Mags line-up would be infinitely stronger than one with Gutierrez in it...

I think it would but I still kind of hope Gutierrez, who I learned this week is the second youngest driver to get a Fastest Lap, can make good.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 Oct 2015, 07:34

Magnussen leaving McLaren is absolutely no surprise given how abysmally he has been treated by the team. I am convinced that McLaren did not expect Alonso to actually want to join them, and they should not have bothered because all it has done is increase the pressure on them and Honda.

I sure hope that Renault takes Button's recent commendation to heart, that Magnussen was able to be so close to such an experienced driver with so little seat time (I think he had maybe a tenth of the testing time Hamilton had) was one of, if not the most, most impressive rookie performances since the testing ban.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 16 Oct 2015, 11:52

I'll post this here but it may need its own thread if it goes anywhere:

http://news.sky.com/story/1570686/chine ... -8-5bn-bid

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 16 Oct 2015, 19:17

Salamander wrote:Magnussen leaving McLaren is absolutely no surprise given how abysmally he has been treated by the team.

...

I sure hope that Renault takes Button's recent commendation to heart, that Magnussen was able to be so close to such an experienced driver with so little seat time (I think he had maybe a tenth of the testing time Hamilton had) was one of, if not the most, most impressive rookie performances since the testing ban..

This.

And regarding the fact McLaren told him on his bathplugging birthday then it sums up just how rotten McLaren were to poor Kevin.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 17 Oct 2015, 00:58

It could turn out to be the best birthday present he ever had...

girry · Post by **girry** » 17 Oct 2015, 11:00

I believe Magnussen was a victim of McLaren's internal politics rather than McLaren being caught out by the arrival of Alonso, which is why he was kinda stuck between two hands for two years: Dennis preferred him over Jenson, Honda didn't.

But the best rookie performance since testing ban? In race trim he was quite mediocre compared to Jenson, really..ok, he had more pressure given that he debuted in a McLaren, but it was not more impressive than the debuts of Pérez, di Resta, Bianchi, or even Bottas and Nasr - and whoever can say what kind of debuts the Toro Rosso guys have had...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 17 Oct 2015, 11:12

giraurd wrote:I believe Magnussen was a victim of McLaren's internal politics rather than McLaren being caught out by the arrival of Alonso, which is why he was kinda stuck between two hands for two years: Dennis preferred him over Jenson, Honda didn't.

In the grand scheme of things, I believe it has little to do with Honda - a works supplier they may be, but shareholders they are not. If they have a preference towards Button (which is perfectly plausible), they don't really have any means of forcing that to happen.

Rather, it's the Bahraini investment group Mumtalakat that's reportedly continuing to strong-arm Dennis into sticking with Button. They owned 50% of the business back in 2014 when Button initially got the nod over Magnussen, and while that has been reduced to 42%, it's still a bigger share than either Dennis or Ojjeh have. They seem focused on having star-power, and while many here may deny Button his place as a top driver - justified or not - he has a WDC to his name and is one of the more recognisable names on the grid to the Average Joe.

Reports from this time last year demonstrate how Dennis tried to make an outcry about the situation as publicly as he could get away with, while avoiding getting in trouble with his fellow shareholders. The way he talked about the Magnussen-Button situation at the end of 2014 made clear that if economics had not been a factor in the thinking of the other shareholders, Magnussen would have stayed on.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2015, 12:06

giraurd wrote:But the best rookie performance since testing ban? In race trim he was quite mediocre compared to Jenson, really..ok, he had more pressure given that he debuted in a McLaren, but it was not more impressive than the debuts of Pérez, di Resta, Bianchi, or even Bottas and Nasr - and whoever can say what kind of debuts the Toro Rosso guys have had...

I'm sorry, but it absolutely was the best rookie performance. Experience counts for everything these days. None of the drivers you listed had to contend with a driver anywhere as strong as Button, especially in race pace, which is Button's greatest strength. Nonetheless, Magnussen took up this challenge with gusto, despite having such a limited time to acclimitise to F1 machinery, but he still outperformed Button in qualifying trim - maybe only by a small margin, but when you're up against a former WDC, winner of 15 Grands Prix, and someone who is still giving a great account of themselves versus Fernando Alonso, who many still believe is the greatest driver in the sport, and you try and diminish that? No. No other driver you listed could've done that in their debut season. They wouldn't have come close.

But let's go through those drivers one-by-one, just to be sure. Perez in his rookie season was no match for Kobayashi, neither di Resta for Sutil. They were outscored 30-14 and 42-27, respectively. Neither Kobayashi nor Sutil were ever race winning talents, much less WDC-capable ones. Bianchi had to deal with Max Chilton, and much as I support Chilton, let's be honest, he wasn't ever going to be a tough obstacle for Bianchi to overcome. Bottas was up against an actual race winner in Pastor Maldonado, but one who was going through an annus horribilis, much as their team, Williams, was. He showed more flashes of brilliance than Maldonado did that year, but for the majority of the year, he was on level pegging, more or less. And with Nasr, sure, he has beaten Marcus Ericsson, but Ericsson only had, what, two-thirds of a season experience himself? In a Caterham? Not to mention that he has shown up Nasr on a few occasions.

So, yes. Kevin Magnussen was absolutely more impressive than any driver since the testing ban. Any less would be setting impossible expectations for someone in that position. In fact, I would go as far as to say it would take at least someone on the level of, say, Vettel or Hamilton, if not Prost or Schumacher, to succeed as much as he did in 2014.

girry · Post by **girry** » 17 Oct 2015, 18:32

No.

Whilst I generally feel Jenson is underrated a driver - at his comfort zone possibly the best driver on the grid - he did blitz Magnussen by a margin of 126 points to 55. Whilst points aren't an absolute representative, Mags did cause a lot of his trouble on his own too, and couldn't really ever seem to put a full weekend together after Melborune.

Note that I am not criticizing Kevin as a driver nor judging his absolute potential by a single season, I just consider his season 2014 no better a debut than any of those mentioned: showed potential, was solid but nothing magical. (although granted, I did recall Pérez's debut season having been better than it was).

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2015, 18:52

giraurd wrote:No.

Whilst I generally feel Jenson is underrated a driver - at his comfort zone possibly the best driver on the grid - he did blitz Magnussen by a margin of 126 points to 55. Whilst points aren't an absolute representative, Mags did cause a lot of his trouble on his own too, and couldn't really ever seem to put a full weekend together after Melborune.

Note that I am not criticizing Kevin as a driver nor judging his absolute potential by a single season, I just consider his season 2014 no better a debut than any of those mentioned: showed potential, was solid but nothing magical. (although granted, I did recall Pérez's debut season having been better than it was).

I still don't understand where you're getting this conclusion from. Are Sutil, Kobayashi, Maldonado, et al comparable to Button? No, but they still blitzed their rookie teammates to a roughly similar degree. Therefore, it simply stands to reason that Magnussen was better than all the other rookies.

girry · Post by **girry** » 17 Oct 2015, 21:44

Maldonado, uh..didn't blitz Bottas - and di Resta's 2011 really was finer than the points suggest. Yet still, if you disregard those two - JEV, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Bianchi, even Kvyat, Alguersuari, Nasr could very well be up there as the most convincing debutants, there's just no way to know for sure for they didn't have the luxury of a solid benchmark. (Fwiw, Kamui was pretty much a 2010 debutant as well, and he did beat two benchmarks in the form de la Rosa & Heidfeld..). To call Magnussen's debut season certainly better than those of all above is implausible.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2015, 23:05

giraurd wrote:Maldonado, uh..didn't blitz Bottas - and di Resta's 2011 really was finer than the points suggest. Yet still, if you disregard those two - JEV, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Bianchi, even Kvyat, Alguersuari, Nasr could very well be up there as the most convincing debutants, there's just no way to know for sure for they didn't have the luxury of a solid benchmark. (Fwiw, Kamui was pretty much a 2010 debutant as well, and he did beat two benchmarks in the form de la Rosa & Heidfeld..). To call Magnussen's debut season certainly better than those of all above is implausible.

You keep saying that, but you've not given a single reason, as far as I can tell, as to why any of those drivers could be considered anywhere near as difficult a teammate for a rookie to beat as Button in 2014. Even when taking into account, say, JEV vs Ricciardo - two rookies (near enough, in Ricciardo's case). Neither had the mountains of experience, both in F1 and with the team, that Button has. Neither would've been as difficult a teammate to beat as Button - not when they debuted, anyway. As far as I can tell, it's implausible

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 18 Oct 2015, 00:02

I've got to say I'm with Salamander on this one. I was a big fan of Magnussen last year, and I think that his flaws were much more public than others' on the basis that he was driving a McLaren rather than a Caterham. I mean, whilst Ericsson got a lot of shaming on this forum, the wider press didn't care too much as his position wasn't as important. And Magnussen was getting good results in a year where the podiums were almost always locked out by the Mercedes pair.

Perez's debut season was a lot better in terms of race performances than actual points results. He got famous really quickly for being really good at defending his position in the age of DRS (something he is (for some reason) still really good at), and both him and Kobayashi got decent results at Australia when the Sauber was disqualified.

I think Bottas' debut season was overrated on the fact that there was a lot of hype about his ability before the season had even begin, as well as the fact his teammate was Maldonado who everybody was already hating, and the qualifying result of Canada that year. His machinery was far too crap to determine how good his debut season even was, I think.

For me I'd say that in the age of no testing, Perez and Magnussen had the best debuts, but I have yet to see either of those drivers in a decent car. Also, has anyone noticed that Gutierrez had the most points of all the rookies in 2013? Did that even happen?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 18 Oct 2015, 00:18

Rob Dylan wrote:Also, has anyone noticed that Gutierrez had the most points of all the rookies in 2013? Did that even happen?

Well, Bottas had a crappier car and the other rookies were in Marussias and Caterhams so...

girry · Post by **girry** » 18 Oct 2015, 07:16

Salamander wrote:
giraurd wrote:Maldonado, uh..didn't blitz Bottas - and di Resta's 2011 really was finer than the points suggest. Yet still, if you disregard those two - JEV, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Bianchi, even Kvyat, Alguersuari, Nasr could very well be up there as the most convincing debutants, there's just no way to know for sure for they didn't have the luxury of a solid benchmark. (Fwiw, Kamui was pretty much a 2010 debutant as well, and he did beat two benchmarks in the form de la Rosa & Heidfeld..). To call Magnussen's debut season certainly better than those of all above is implausible.

You keep saying that, but you've not given a single reason, as far as I can tell, as to why any of those drivers could be considered anywhere near as difficult a teammate for a rookie to beat as Button in 2014. Even when taking into account, say, JEV vs Ricciardo - two rookies (near enough, in Ricciardo's case). Neither had the mountains of experience, both in F1 and with the team, that Button has. Neither would've been as difficult a teammate to beat as Button - not when they debuted, anyway. As far as I can tell, it's implausible

Sorry to drag on, but why does the driver the rookie is facing *need* to be comparable to Button, when Magnussen was further off Button than the examples I named to their benchmarks?

For what it's worth, we also can't know for sure whether Button was performing up to his normal standards in 2014 or not - remember how awful he was compared to Hamilton when struggling with balance?