2016 Silly Season Thread

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 20 Sep 2015, 20:23

GwilymJJames wrote:Maldonado staying with Lotus for 2016.

*F1 Fanatic shitstorm incoming*

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 20 Sep 2015, 21:31

I have mixed feelings on the Reverend, but I must say this: F1 would be a hell of a lot duller without the guy.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 20 Sep 2015, 22:32

So if VW do buy Red Bull Racing, what happens to Toro Rosso?

Are VW going to buy them from Red Bull too? Are Red Bull going to sell them separately? Will Red Bull retain ownership of Toro Rosso? It would seem strange for them to stay on as title sponsors for the VW factory team, but then retain their own team that doesn't quite advertise the brand in the same way.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 20 Sep 2015, 22:34

Maldonado deserves a place in F1. He had a lot of misfortunes in this season while fighting for points.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 21 Sep 2015, 02:30

GwilymJJames wrote:Maldonado staying with Lotus for 2016.

Up yours society!!!!

Post by **Londoner** » 21 Sep 2015, 11:26

According to the Daily Torygra...sorry, Daily Telegraph, Jenson Button will be announcing his retirement from F1 this weekend.

To be honest, in hindsight I wish he'd bowed out of F1 at the end of last season, with that awesome drive at Abu Dhabi to cap off his career. I highly doubt he'll get a chance this year to put in one last clinic of a race. At least it looks like he's got a WEC drive lined up, plus some work with the BBC.

I've always said that I've grown up watching the careers of Button, Alonso, Massa and Raikkonen in F1, given they all debuted during the early years of the previous decade. It is going to take some time getting used to not seeing Button on the grid, though not as half as much as when the last of that quartet finally retire from the sport.

So, who out of Magnussen or Vandoorne will take over the poisoned chalice that is the available McLaren seat for next year?

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 21 Sep 2015, 11:29

Rmmmnnnn Grrrrjjjjnnnnnn more and more likely to Haas next year.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grosj ... nfirmation

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 21 Sep 2015, 12:21

East Londoner wrote:According to the Daily Torygra...sorry, Daily Telegraph, Jenson Button will be announcing his retirement from F1 this weekend.

BBC Sport also wrote about it.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 21 Sep 2015, 14:25

East Londoner wrote:According to the Daily Torygra...sorry, Daily Telegraph, Jenson Button will be announcing his retirement from F1 this weekend.

To be honest, in hindsight I wish he'd bowed out of F1 at the end of last season, with that awesome drive at Abu Dhabi to cap off his career. I highly doubt he'll get a chance this year to put in one last clinic of a race. At least it looks like he's got a WEC drive lined up, plus some work with the BBC.

I've always said that I've grown up watching the careers of Button, Alonso, Massa and Raikkonen in F1, given they all debuted during the early years of the previous decade. It is going to take some time getting used to not seeing Button on the grid, though not as half as much as when the last of that quartet finally retire from the sport.

So, who out of Magnussen or Vandoorne will take over the poisoned chalice that is the available McLaren seat for next year?

I hope it's Vandoorne; I'd like McLaren to be as sharp as they were when they brought Lewis.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Sep 2015, 15:12

Good seats for the next year are locked. The only option for Jenson is going to Lotus (or Renault), alongside with Maldonado, but looks like Palmer will get the seat (I don't think he will be "valsecchized").

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Sep 2015, 15:23

Aerond wrote:I hope it's Vandoorne; I'd like McLaren to be as sharp as they were when they brought Lewis.

Either driver would be wasted on McLaren in its current state. Besides, it looks like Magnussen is considering his options elsewhere.

Post by **Ataxia** » 21 Sep 2015, 21:37

Dj_bereta wrote:Good seats for the next year are locked. The only option for Jenson is going to Lotus (or Renault), alongside with Maldonado, but looks like Palmer will get the seat (I don't think he will be "valsecchized").

I've heard the second Renault seat is between Vergne and Magnussen; Alain Prost rates Vergne quite highly, and assuming Button's retiring it may be that Magnussen regains his McLaren seat. Ocon is allegedly an outside chance, whilst it doesn't seem that Palmer is a real factor. Haas look more and more likely to be starting 2016 with a Grosjean/Gutierrez lineup.

Furthermore, if we take the rumours that the Renault deal is done with Lotus as true, then Mercedes will become Manor's new engine partner in 2016.

Renault have elected to continue with Maldonado to plug the gap for 2016 and will most likely drop him once they start receiving their historical payments from FOM.

EDIT: Now it seems that Perez is the front-runner for the Renault seat...WHAT'S GOING ON HERE

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 22 Sep 2015, 07:50

I think Button will stay with a pay cut.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Sep 2015, 10:12

CoopsII wrote:I think Button will stay with a pay cut.

Autosport is suggesting he's going to announce his retirement at Suzuka. :cry:

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 22 Sep 2015, 11:38

Perez and Pastor at Renault/Lotus is a novel idea. I think it would be a good team but they need a good car, so hopefully Renault hire some good people. Vergne would be a good choice too.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 22 Sep 2015, 11:48

dr-baker wrote:
CoopsII wrote:I think Button will stay with a pay cut.

Autosport is suggesting he's going to announce his retirement at Suzuka.

Pshaw! Autosport or, wait, no, right, as you were.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 22 Sep 2015, 11:58

Salamander wrote:
Aerond wrote:I hope it's Vandoorne; I'd like McLaren to be as sharp as they were when they brought Lewis.

Either driver would be wasted on McLaren in its current state. Besides, it looks like Magnussen is considering his options elsewhere.

He was going for Haas but with the hand injury I don't like his chances now.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 22 Sep 2015, 12:08

golic_2004 wrote:
Salamander wrote:Either driver would be wasted on McLaren in its current state. Besides, it looks like Magnussen is considering his options elsewhere.

He was going for Haas but with the hand injury I don't like his chances now.

I don't understand how that would affect his chances - it's not like Haas are doing any running any time soon.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Sep 2015, 12:20

CoopsII wrote:Pshaw! Autosport or, wait, no, right, as you were.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 22 Sep 2015, 14:53

Pastor staying at Lotus tells me the Renault deal is dead. Autosport reported a while back that they preferred Roman, and Total since they were French. Now if VW does buy RBR, I can see Renault buying STR. There were rumors of this around Monaco this year, and it would explain both what Red Bull would do with STR, and why Lotus kept Pastor. And it would give us FIVE factory teams.

Makes too much sense to happen though....

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 22 Sep 2015, 15:02

Wallio wrote:Pastor staying at Lotus tells me the Renault deal is dead. Autosport reported a while back that they preferred Roman, and Total since they were French. Now if VW does buy RBR, I can see Renault buying STR. There were rumors of this around Monaco this year, and it would explain both what Red Bull would do with STR, and why Lotus kept Pastor. And it would give us FIVE factory teams.

Makes too much sense to happen though....

Or Pastor is being used as stop gap to get some extra finance.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 22 Sep 2015, 16:47

Salamander wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:
Salamander wrote:Either driver would be wasted on McLaren in its current state. Besides, it looks like Magnussen is considering his options elsewhere.

He was going for Haas but with the hand injury I don't like his chances now.

I don't understand how that would affect his chances - it's not like Haas are doing any running any time soon.

Heck, Jackie Stewart once won a race with a broken wrist. Even ignoring that achievement, it's not like it took him many months to recover.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 22 Sep 2015, 23:12

Teams without an engine cannot compete and so would incur massive penalties and would also be worth less than zero on the market so either (i) Mateschitz has gone for mutually assured destruction (Red Bull and Toro Rosso go down taking F1 with them forcing Bernie to arrange an engine deal), (ii) he is an idiot (unlikely) or (iii) he has had another solution all along. But with the current VW shenanigans about fiddling emissions, I can see any F1 deal gong out of the window as the value and reputation of the company plummet.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Sep 2015, 10:51

IceG wrote:Teams without an engine cannot compete and so would incur massive penalties and would also be worth less than zero on the market so either (i) Mateschitz has gone for mutually assured destruction (Red Bull and Toro Rosso go down taking F1 with them forcing Bernie to arrange an engine deal), (ii) he is an idiot (unlikely) or (iii) he has had another solution all along. But with the current VW shenanigans about fiddling emissions, I can see any F1 deal gong out of the window as the value and reputation of the company plummet.

It could be that Mateschitz has decided long ago that being in F1 and not winning is not for him (and F1 should get rid of teams like this), so he is trying to line up some sort of exit that spares him from eventual penalties of having signed agreement to stay in F1 until 2020 and receive the historical fee from Bernie. He will argue that Red Bull cannot stay in F1 because it has no engine supplier willing to make a deal with the team. Autosport has an article that says that a decision to supply Red Bull is far from straight forward. In the end all the fault with their current predicament lies with Red Bull because they severed the ties with Renault. In the end, thanks to Haas, we would get one less team on F1 if no one bought at least one of the Red Bull teams which I find unlikely. I would mind to see the back of the Bulls to be honest.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Sep 2015, 11:34

Just a bunch of thoughts. Make of them what you will.

The days of big, big corporations sinking money into F1 teams are over. Run through the major team sponsors in F1 at present. Red Bull is the only company really putting money into the sport. The rest are there for a few stickers and some marketing material. The only organisations to come close to what Red Bull have done are the car manufacturers themselves, plus Benetton, and arguably Marlboro who were sponsoring upwards of half the grid by the late 80s/early 90s.

You have to ask yourself - who will replace Red Bull? The teams are still asking themselves who will replace the tobacco companies after all that went away by 2006. They still haven't found an answer to that question yet. So whilst we may delight in Red Bull leaving in a perverse way, the cold reality of it is that they have single-handedly propped up two teams in the sport for almost a decade now and when they leave, at current cost levels, no-one will be willing to step in.

Certainly not an organisation that will be willing to stay the course for a significant period of time. VW might step in, but that's a big might. And you think car manufacturers are good for F1? For any motorsport series? Look at the last time F1 had significant manufacturer involvement. The sport almost went to the wall in 2008/09. Group C sportscars did go to the wall in the early 1990s. Championships like the WRC and WEC which are heavily reliant on manufacturer involvement will never be truly sustainable like F1 is, or at least used to be.

If Red Bull quits, they will need to find a buyer. They can't just write off all of the facilities and assets. Renault will buy Lotus back, and maybe VW will get involved with the main Red Bull team, but I doubt we'll see a saviour for Toro Rosso. Italy is broke.

The whole situation throws Max Mosley's draft entry list for F1 back when Formula Elaborate Bluff was at its height into a new light. You could see what he was trying to do. Put the teams back in control of organisations that existed for racing, not marketing. It looked crap at the time because no-one had heard of the majority of the teams. But he was looking at the long game, and for far too long now we've had short-term, short-sighted people at the helm of F1 and it hasn't been called out.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 23 Sep 2015, 12:15

Car manufacturers will never be in for the racing - they enter with the main/sole purpose of selling cars, and F1 is only a means to that end in the form of competitive advertisement. The actual racing is of no interest to them if it doesnt help in flogging motors.

Manufactures only really got involved because merely selling engines was not generating enough good PR - saying "We powered the winning F1 team" does not have as good a ring as "we are the winning F1 team"

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Sep 2015, 12:24

Thanks for your thoughts AndreaModa. Some good points were made.

I will not hide (given my post history it would be impossible) my dislike of Red Bull due to the way they use the press and most things they say. I think it is the most cynical, hypocritical, whiny and infuriating team in F1 history. This is probably because I quite liked them at first and even enjoyed their early success. I thought, like many, that they represented new blood and a new approach into F1. Soon enough that facade fell and they revealed themselves to be a bunch of hypocritical b******s. Now that this is out of the way let's move on into actual discussion points.

It is true that Red Bull is important to F1 given the current economical climate that goes around the world. Perhaps more important than ever. Truth be told though, how many sponsors / corporations you know, besides Marlboro, that stayed on the long run? I think that having VW (doubtful given the emissions-gate) or Red Bull equals pretty much the same. Specially given that the latter already stated that it is only worth staying in F1 when they are winning. From exposition and marketing point of view they are not wrong. But they own teams, they do not just sponsor them. When one comes into F1, one must be prepared for long winless periods if they want to stay in the long run. Not even Ferrari was immune and they could manufacture their own engines. Which is another source for Red Bull frustrations. They have only one option here and is making their own engines if they want to get rid of those frustrations.

As for any prospective buyers for the teams, I curiously think that Toro Rosso might be easier due to the lower price and maintenance needed. I always thought that Mateshitz was in no rush to sell them and asked too much, so in the event of leaving F1, Toro Rosso might attract some very rich dudes (could the Minardi name be revived?) who will want make more with less using an already made team. The line of thought is with the arrival of Haas and having at least one Red Bull team bought, the grid will remain the same next year and that would not be more of a problem that it is today.

This is why I won't miss Red Bull if they leave. Of course it would be better if they stay. That way my love-hate relationship with them (they have Ricciardo) could keep going.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 23 Sep 2015, 13:09

DanielPT wrote:As for any prospective buyers for the teams, I curiously think that Toro Rosso might be easier due to the lower price and maintenance needed. I always thought that Mateshitz was in no rush to sell them and asked too much, so in the event of leaving F1, Toro Rosso might attract some very rich dudes (could the Minardi name be revived?) who will want make more with less using an already made team.

The problem with buying Toro Rosso does not lie with the initial outlay in purchasing the team, but in securing adequate funding to run the team. The team can be bought outright for a percentage of its actual worth (probably something in the order of US $30-40 million), but where would the operational funding come from? A prospective buyer would need easily US $100-120 million to operate at a decent level.

DanielPT wrote:This is why I won't miss Red Bull if they leave. Of course it would be better if they stay. That way my love-hate relationship with them (they have Ricciardo) could keep going.

I know exactly what you mean. I wouldn't miss THEM but I would miss 2 teams on the grid, regardless of who they were.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 23 Sep 2015, 13:25

Aguaman wrote:Perez and Pastor at Renault/Lotus is a novel idea. I think it would be a good team but they need a good car, so hopefully Renault hire some good people. Vergne would be a good choice too.

Force India says otherwise http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120945

Post by **Ataxia** » 23 Sep 2015, 21:24

golic_2004 wrote:
Aguaman wrote:Perez and Pastor at Renault/Lotus is a novel idea. I think it would be a good team but they need a good car, so hopefully Renault hire some good people. Vergne would be a good choice too.

Force India says otherwise http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120945

...aaaaand it's confirmed.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 24 Sep 2015, 04:24

So Vergne to Lotus/Renault is basically set nearly in stone.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Sep 2015, 10:57

Aguaman wrote:So Vergne to Lotus/Renault is basically set nearly in stone.

I still hoping that Renault makes the deal before the end of the season making it effectively a Renault Lotus - Mercedes.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 24 Sep 2015, 11:48

DanielPT wrote:
Aguaman wrote:So Vergne to Lotus/Renault is basically set nearly in stone.

I still hoping that Renault makes the deal before the end of the season making it effectively a Renault Lotus - Mercedes.

Oh lordy.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 24 Sep 2015, 13:51

Maybe we could get Paul Stoddart regaining STR and bingo, Minardi is back in F1!

Post by **Nuppiz** » 24 Sep 2015, 17:01

I guess Volkswagen won't be buying any F1 teams soon.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Sep 2015, 17:21

Nuppiz wrote:I guess Volkswagen won't be buying any F1 teams soon.

On the positive side, those annoying rumors might be over for a while.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 24 Sep 2015, 17:33

DanielPT wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:I guess Volkswagen won't be buying any F1 teams soon.

On the positive side, those annoying rumors might be over for a while.

But, but #AudiF1Confirmed...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Sep 2015, 17:39

Simtek wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:I guess Volkswagen won't be buying any F1 teams soon.

On the positive side, those annoying rumors might be over for a while.

But, but #AudiF1Confirmed...

There is but one constant across all possible universes, and that constant is this: Audi have never had an F1 team, do not currently have an F1 team, and never will have an F1 team.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Sep 2015, 21:57

But, but #AudiF1Confirmed...

There is but one constant across all possible universes, and that constant is this: Audi have never had an F1 team, do not currently have an F1 team, and never will have an F1 team.

But they had a Grand Prix team in the thirties. (Audi and Auto-Union, same thing, it had four rings)
But i think Audi is doing fine in WEC, DTM and GT, similarly Porsche is enjoying themselves in WEC and GT. On the other hand, VW is getting bored of having next to no competition in WRC. So where could they go? Following Citroën into WTCC might be possible, but a return with Seat looks more plausible. They can also keep being involved in WRC with Skoda, so VW for F1 then?
Changing Red Bull into 'Bentley-Volkswagen' and Toro Rosso into 'Lamborghini-Volkswagen' would be totally epic. Red Bull will probably stay as a sponsor for both teams for a while. Now we just need a third team to be called Bugatti.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Sep 2015, 22:10

This wrote:But they had a Grand Prix team in the thirties. (Audi and Auto-Union, same thing, it had four rings)
But i think Audi is doing fine in WEC, DTM and GT, similarly Porsche is enjoying themselves in WEC and GT. On the other hand, VW is getting bored of having next to no competition in WRC. So where could they go? Following Citroën into WTCC might be possible, but a return with Seat looks more plausible. They can also keep being involved in WRC with Skoda, so VW for F1 then?
Changing Red Bull into 'Bentley-Volkswagen' and Toro Rosso into 'Lamborghini-Volkswagen' would be totally epic. Red Bull will probably stay as a sponsor for both teams for a while. Now we just need a third team to be called Bugatti.

Well, we haven't had any cheating for a while in F1 (that we know of), so at least with VW that role will finally be fulfilled. It is not lack of budget because if there is some leftovers from the budget they assigned to deal with the ongoing scandal they could do with buying a couple of F1 teams instead of dumping that money into further R&D emission tests cheating technologies.