The Alessandro Zanardi IndyCar Thread

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 25 Aug 2015, 08:58

So sad.

tBone · Post by **tBone** » 25 Aug 2015, 09:03

Another great driver, another great character, another freak accident...

R.I.P. Justin Wilson

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 Aug 2015, 09:09

Yet another terrible news... RIP Justin Wilson.

Eifelland · Post by **Eifelland** » 25 Aug 2015, 09:36

Dj_bereta wrote:Sad to see another driver dying. RIP Justin.

I hope Indycar and other open wheel series start to think about a canopy or something.

The problem with a canopy for me, is that it feels like another step towards the total sterilisation of racing. I'm not quite coming from Stirling Moss' viewpoint here, but half the thrill of motor racing is the risk that these guys are taking. Trying to legislate for every possible outcome the way that say. The aviation industry does after a serious accident would be just as bad for the sport.

Now, I appreciate that not everyone sees it the same way - as evidenced by comments on here, but I think that the accidents we've had like Wheldon, or Surtees, or Massa are a different beast to accidents suffered by drivers like Cervert, Pryce or Williamson (or, arguably, Bianchi), where a simple change of proceedures/better maintenance/not hiring impatient track marshals would bring a better outcome to a totally avoidable accident (does Koenigg fit into this category too?).

Tl;Dr it is a tragedy we've lost another driver ( and an F1 reject, which is why we're all here!), but over legislation freak accidents seems like the wrong answer.

Peteroli34 · Post by **Peteroli34** » 25 Aug 2015, 09:46

So sad RIP Justin Wilson

Post by **Ataxia** » 25 Aug 2015, 10:16

Horrible news. RIP Justin.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 25 Aug 2015, 10:37

RIP Justin, it pains me that we're here writing our condolences for another driver already.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 25 Aug 2015, 10:46

I can't bloody believe it. I had such a bad feeling about it already when I heard about the accident, but this is just surreal. Two drivers taken from us so soon after another. I'm starting to believe that perhaps the period in which I grew up watching racing (late 1990s-early 2000s) in which there were no fatal accidents was unique, an exception, not a rule. It seems like you can never ban death from racing. Just when you think you finally have, it comes back to show you it's still there.

And it seems like here is always one oval too many on the IndyCar schedule towards the end of the year... in 2011 it was Vegas, 2013 Fontana where fortunately nobody died, and now Pocono this year. RIP Justin. I can't believe it, I still can't.

Dom_Wings · Post by **Dom_Wings** » 25 Aug 2015, 11:03

RIP Justin :'(

Poor Sage, what must he be thinking right now...

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 25 Aug 2015, 11:24

If anyone could win for Dale Coyne convincingly then he is championship material. Sadly we will never see Justin Wilson win an Indycar title like he deserves but he will be a champion in our hearts. RIP Justin Wilson

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx · Post by **MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx** » 25 Aug 2015, 13:24

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motorsport/34037413

Another sad day for F1...

Francis23 · Post by **Francis23** » 25 Aug 2015, 15:36

Awful, sickening news, RIP Justin, deserved much more of a chance in F1. My thoughts go out to his family and friends.

I hope the FIA start properly testing closed cockpits now as there are a lot of issues (such as extraction and cockpit temperatures) that would need to be ironed out if a canopy was to be fitted.

Too many promising drivers have died because of an open cockpit/flying debris recently (apart from Jules), let's end that tally here.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 25 Aug 2015, 16:03

This is a complete shock. Quite young too. RIP Justin Wilson.

It is scary how in recent years whenever there have several instances where in a small space of time we have multiple motorsport-related deaths. In 2011 we had Wheldon and Simonchelli die within a few weeks, last year I believe we had Bianchi's accident and de Cesaris' death on the same day and now Guy Ligier and Wilson pass in a matter of a few days.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 25 Aug 2015, 17:54

I have been with holding posting here while I collect my thoughts. Having gone to the race and sat at the entrance to Turn 1, it was surreal. We watched Sage's car come spinning out of the corner and while we were focused on that, a huge bang, loud enough to be heard of the crowd, over the cars, over...well everything, had us turn. The bang, about as loud as a stick of dynamite, clearly detectable from our position about 1/3 mile away, was Wilson's impact. We sat and watched the blue car for a while, and he wasn't moving.

The Jumbotron showed only one replay, and from it, it became clear Wilson was out long before impact. It also was clear he never slowed down at all. Race Control began squaking to fire up the Medi-evac chopper, and as it warmed up in the in-field the track fell silent. Completely, deathly silent. No one said anything. The PA guys slowed down, and the scanner went quiet, save for the occasional driver asking for an update of Wilson. It was beyond eerie.

I have been watching racing in one form or another for 26 years. I have sadly watched numerous drivers die on live TV in NASCAR, F1, IRL, CART, and the NHRA. I had never actually been at the track before when a fatality occurred. It just makes it harder to fathom for me. Especially since less than 24 hours before I had been behind the wheel of my own race car, testing out a new suspension set up. It all just made it hit harder home I guess.

Long before this though, it was just a terrible race. No flow, no rhythm, just a series of crazy scrambles followed by wrecks. Compared to last years slipstream fest 204mph average, it was awful.

Beyond the calls for canopies, I think the aero kits need to be looked at. I was one of the loudest defenders of the kits during the month of May, but Sunday, long before the race started I changed my mind. The pits open 5 hours before the race, and as my buddies and I walked through the garages, we noticed two things: First, the rear wing was angled up the wrong way. If they weren't actually producing lift, it was a miracle. This was a marked change from the flat Dallara wing of before. And if you watch the numerous wrecks, Marco's in particular, drivers passing by were taking the air off the wings way too easy. This caused about 3-4 wrecks in of itself. They needed more wing. A good bit more. Sato was calling for more rear wing on the radio all race, and when they finally gave it to him, he charged up front.

The second thing we noticed was that up close, where the naked eye can see what TV hides, the kits themselves were VERY badly put together. Bits had exposed fasteners, large panel gaps, and even large amounts of cello-tape holding them on. Even teams like Penske had this. Both Honda and Chevy were guilty, the only car that looked properly built was the Chevy Test Hack show car I the Fan Zone. The base DW12 was fugly, but having see it up close, it didn't look like a bodge job. The pieces at least fit.

The drivers must take a share of the blame too. The racing was terribly sloppy. Tristen takes out Rahal, TK just misses Turn 2, and numerous times guys tried to go 5,6,7, and yes, 8 wide into Turn 1. Why? Everyone knew it wasn't going to work, why try it? Hell they bathplugged up the start...twice!

This will no doubt be the last Pocono race for Indy, and well sadly, maybe that's not a bad thing.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 25 Aug 2015, 17:55

Very sad. I can barely believe that yet another driver has died doing what they love in the modern age.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 25 Aug 2015, 19:11

I can't really add anything at this point. I might give a quick 2c on the closed cockpit thing later in the week.

Terrible day. RIP Justin.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Aug 2015, 19:12

Wallio wrote:The second thing we noticed was that up close, where the naked eye can see what TV hides, the kits themselves were VERY badly put together. Bits had exposed fasteners, large panel gaps, and even large amounts of cello-tape holding them on. Even teams like Penske had this. Both Honda and Chevy were guilty, the only car that looked properly built was the Chevy Test Hack show car I the Fan Zone. The base DW12 was fugly, but having see it up close, it didn't look like a bodge job. The pieces at least fit.

Having been on the pit walk during the Formula E test at Donington Park yesterday, I saw none of this on any of the cars that I could see in the garages being prepared. I understand you run your own drag cars, and therefore have an eye for these things, would it have been obvious to the untrained eye too? (I am assuming so by your description.) This does seem like rather a serious issue that needs addressing, based on your observations.

Concerning the rest of your post, I was at Brands Hatch on the day that Henry Surtees died. The accident happened on the GP loop while I was in the Paddock Hill grandstand, so there was woodland between us and the accident. The big screens did not show any replays, and when the F2 cars quietly drove away to the paddock after the red flag, without the race being restarted, it seemed ominous that there was at least a serious injury. But there was no one single moment where I realised the true gravity of the situation. It was horrible to discover the truth when I returned home, but appreciated being able to 'enjoy' the rest of the day's action without knowing. Had I been aware, I may well have decided to leave and not watched the remaining support races. I believe my experience is what happened after the 1955 Le Mans disaster. Had everybody been aware, there was the fear that people leaving the track would have blocked the road-based rescue and recovery vehicles dealing with the disaster. To have been aware of the gravity of the situation while trackside, as you were, must have been awful, knowing that this was a leisure/entertainment activity for the spectators.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 25 Aug 2015, 19:42

dr-baker wrote:
Wallio wrote:The second thing we noticed was that up close, where the naked eye can see what TV hides, the kits themselves were VERY badly put together. Bits had exposed fasteners, large panel gaps, and even large amounts of cello-tape holding them on. Even teams like Penske had this. Both Honda and Chevy were guilty, the only car that looked properly built was the Chevy Test Hack show car I the Fan Zone. The base DW12 was fugly, but having see it up close, it didn't look like a bodge job. The pieces at least fit.

Having been on the pit walk during the Formula E test at Donington Park yesterday, I saw none of this on any of the cars that I could see in the garages being prepared. I understand you run your own drag cars, and therefore have an eye for these things, would it have been obvious to the untrained eye too? (I am assuming so by your description.) This does seem like rather a serious issue that needs addressing, based on your observations.

Concerning the rest of your post, I was at Brands Hatch on the day that Henry Surtees died. The accident happened on the GP loop while I was in the Paddock Hill grandstand, so there was woodland between us and the accident. The big screens did not show any replays, and when the F2 cars quietly drove away to the paddock after the red flag, without the race being restarted, it seemed ominous that there was at least a serious injury. But there was no one single moment where I realised the true gravity of the situation. It was horrible to discover the truth when I returned home, but appreciated being able to 'enjoy' the rest of the day's action without knowing. Had I been aware, I may well have decided to leave and not watched the remaining support races. I believe my experience is what happened after the 1955 Le Mans disaster. Had everybody been aware, there was the fear that people leaving the track would have blocked the road-based rescue and recovery vehicles dealing with the disaster. To have been aware of the gravity of the situation while trackside, as you were, must have been awful, knowing that this was a leisure/entertainment activity for the spectators.

I hadn't thought about having a "trained eye" or not. My buddies who went with me noticed it very quickly too, but admittedly they help work on my dragster. The most noticeable things to me were the side pods on the Chevys had so many exposed Dzu-fasteners they looked like they were pop riveted on. My car runs some exposed Dzus, but I don't have the budget of a GM factory deal, nor do I go anywhere near as fast!

The other thing was the front wings of both makes had large amounts of cello-tape covering the joints where the wings mounted to the nose. This was especially noticeable on Will Powers front wings as one of his crewmen, seeing my Penske hat, allowed me to wander into his pit stall. The Hondas had quite a bit as well, as Coyne left both cars front wings exposed prior to the race. I would imagine most people who notice it, but would someone other than you or I (i.e. the dreaded "casual fan") know that its not normal? I'm not sure.

Admittedly I haven't checked my pictures from the last two years yet to compare if the DW12 was really that much more put together, but it jumped out at me so much I can't imagine I made it up. The front "wheel ramps" other were ill fitting as well. I had heard rumors the aero kits, especially the Honda were quite rushed, maybe that's true?

As the caution laps went on (the caution was VERY long) and the chopper warmed up, we started to realize it was bad. Hearing Michael Andretti flat out ignore HR's update requests also was worrying. Then when RHR did his post race interview and said Wilson was unresponsive, it really hit home. It was a sad drive back. For what its worth, many fans in the stands were saying they should have just run out the race under caution, not restart with 5 to go. I shared that view.

Post by **Ataxia** » 25 Aug 2015, 20:07

Wallio wrote:Admittedly I haven't checked my pictures from the last two years yet to compare if the DW12 was really that much more put together, but it jumped out at me so much I can't imagine I made it up. The front "wheel ramps" other were ill fitting as well. I had heard rumors the aero kits, especially the Honda were quite rushed, maybe that's true?

Possibly. With bodywork, it's sometimes a case of "shite, this doesn't fit? let's get the Dremel out and see if we can get it to fit"...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Aug 2015, 20:39

In F1, I have read that tape is used, but only for aerodynamic purposes (eg blanking some of the brake air intake). Rather different to what you are describing. This is definitely something that IndyCar needs to address over the off-season, without a doubt.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 25 Aug 2015, 22:02

Ataxia wrote:
Wallio wrote:Admittedly I haven't checked my pictures from the last two years yet to compare if the DW12 was really that much more put together, but it jumped out at me so much I can't imagine I made it up. The front "wheel ramps" other were ill fitting as well. I had heard rumors the aero kits, especially the Honda were quite rushed, maybe that's true?

Possibly. With bodywork, it's sometimes a case of "shite, this doesn't fit? let's get the Dremel out and see if we can get it to fit"...

Oh believe me, I've done that to my car a time or two, and on other drag cars Ive worked on. But again, we're not going 220, and more importantly we don't need aero like they do.

It seemed seemed very strange. It reminded me of the early 1996 IRL "ragtag" teams at Disneyworld.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 25 Aug 2015, 22:53

I'm shocked by this. No words... RIP

MartinJS81 · Post by **MartinJS81** » 27 Aug 2015, 22:07

Really sad day, and more negative press for our sport. I'm not totally convinced by cockpit canopies, as they could add other dangers when a car is overturned (especially if on fire as well). Maybe some sort of collapsible windscreen that absorbs impact but bends to it is the best solution, that removes dangers without adding new ones and doesn't stop the cars being open-wheel? The SAFER barrier and HANS device have both boosted safety and came from studied work and investment rather than a knee-jerk reaction, I hope something similar can be found to learn from this and stop it happening again.

The only positive is that Wilson was an organ donor, and six of his organs have been reused. One man died, but others can live on.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 28 Aug 2015, 12:41

Rest in Peace Justin, it has been a grim year for motorsport

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 28 Aug 2015, 15:28

Indycar had a parade of cars over the Golden Gate Bridge yesterday, led by Wilson's car. Servia will drive it Sunday with the family's blessing.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 30 Aug 2015, 18:23

If Montoya takes the title today, does that set the record for longest gap between major motorsport championships? [Andretti won the Indycar title in 1969 + 1984 but the F1 championship between them.]

Post by **Londoner** » 30 Aug 2015, 21:36

Penske using dirty tricks already, using Pagenaud to block Newgarden leaving the pits and being able to jump Power. For bathplug sake.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 30 Aug 2015, 22:08

Power and Montoya collide!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Aug 2015, 22:43

East Londoner wrote:Penske using dirty tricks already, using Pagenaud to block Newgarden leaving the pits and being able to jump Power. For bathplug sake.

Simtek wrote:Power and Montoya collide!

And that, everyone, is karma.

Post by **Londoner** » 30 Aug 2015, 22:45

Newgarden.

Looks like the title is Dixon's to lose now. He's on beastly fuel-saving mode, and destroying the rest of the field at the same time.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 30 Aug 2015, 23:18

It doesn't get much closer than that! Well done to Dixon.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Aug 2015, 23:19

That was as tense and as close a championship as it could've been. Hell of a year for Dixon, and JPM - both worthy champions, but in the end, Dixon was the one who kept his nose clean and his head down when it counted.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 30 Aug 2015, 23:27

Dixon's style. Slow start but another devastating 2nd half.

Also a new low for Power. Not only managed to choke again, but helped Montoya to lose the title (not his entirely fault). Under the circumstances, ROTR. Montoya deserves the praise too. Fantastic season. He showed why he is a top driver. F1 still miss him.

It's only me or Rahal tried to take Montoya out after he was rammed by Bourdais?

Dom_Wings · Post by **Dom_Wings** » 30 Aug 2015, 23:50

Great race.

Montoya got hit with the countback - the virtue of when he won the title in CART in 1999

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 31 Aug 2015, 09:01

ahh so close Rahal

Congratz to Dixon, I never even counted him until second half of the race!
And you double points hater if both Indy and Sonoma are normal points, Dixon would still win the title anyway (I think?)

Valentino Lavaggi · Post by **Valentino Lavaggi** » 31 Aug 2015, 15:40

Congrats to Dixon. Personally I would of wanted Rahal to win the title, but as long as it wasn't any of the Penske guys I'm happy.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 31 Aug 2015, 18:51

AxelP800 wrote:ahh so close Rahal Congratz to Dixon, I never even counted him until second half of the race!
And you double points hater if both Indy and Sonoma are normal points, Dixon would still win the title anyway (I think?)

Actually he wouldn't. He would lose to Montoya by 4 points. But it doesn't matter, the rules are what they are, and by virtue of winning more races, Dixon is just as worthy of being champion for this season.

I wanted to see Montoya win, but he hit his teammate, and that is all it takes.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 01 Sep 2015, 16:37

Looks like Coletti is out of indy already

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 01 Sep 2015, 17:09

Ok I know the rules are the same for everybody, and yes Dixon had to do what he did......

BUT man, that's a bitter pill to swallow. How can someone who has lead the points from the first green flag, run well (not great) and still lose to a guy, who honestly was an afterthought. All for some gimmick to add spice to a normally dull race and ignore the fact that the season ends bout 6 weeks too early. Double points is fine for Indy, and if you do the Triple Crown, cool, that makes sense. But for the end of the year? Really?

What is it with American race series? Why can we not have the guy with the most points win the Championship? NHRA and NASCAR have dumb playoffs, and Indycar has this. Sigh. Rant over.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Sep 2015, 18:42

I have to admit, I don't follow IndyCar closely. I know the main protagonists and teams and a little bit of the history, but not much.

But I figured I'd give the final race of the year a watch, so I saw most of the second half of the race. Missed the Montoya/Power contact though. I thought I'd put some of my observations down here for general discussion if anyone feels like it. Feel free to call me out/put me in my place on any of them. May be a few noob comments though, apologies for that!

First thing I noticed, those cars are a handful to drive! Didn't look like they had much grip at all and yet it was interesting to hear the commentators talk about the cars struggling to follow each other closely because of the aerodynamics. Considering the massive amount of bodywork, complex front wings, etc, I thought they would be a bit more stable.

I guess it's more of an American thing but for the uninitiated (like me) it's impossible to follow who is driving for which team because of the different liveries. By the end I had sussed that Kanaan and Dixon were both Ganassi drivers and obviously with broadly the same liveries Power and Montoya were Penske teammates, but certainly for the smaller teams who received less coverage (because the race was effectively Penske vs. Ganassi) I haven't got a clue. It's obviously for sponsorship reasons and as I said, maybe more of a traditional American thing but it would be so much easier if teams ran similar liveries to make it easy for the casual viewer to understand.

The racing, if I'm honest, wasn't that great. It appeared heavily reliant on the pitstop 'cycles' for anyone to make any real progress, though this could of course be down to the track just as much as the cars/drivers. The last few laps were tense though, especially when it appeared Montoya was making inroads into Briscoe. Definitely the best part of the race.

The tyres and fuel saving, both hot topics and bones of contention in F1, are just as influential, if not even more so, in IndyCar. Dixon's fuel-saving run in the middle of the race was clearly a big part in him winning.

Was there ANYONE watching in the stands at the race itself? I've seen numerous tweets this year about how IndyCar viewing figures on TV in the States are rising steadily which is good news, but my word I couldn't see any significant crowds at the track. Maybe the location isn't great? Either way that needs to be addressed because it can't be good for the premier open wheel series in the US to get what appeared to be such poor crowds at the season finale.

Is there any way to develop cars that look broadly similar when in oval trim and road course trim? Having seem pics/footage from Indy and other oval races with the low downforce setup, the cars are quite different animals. Has that always been the case or is it the nature of the current aero packs? I'd like to see the cars keep a fairly similar look about them, although I appreciate that would be hard to achieve with such extremes.

Also, I've seen this mentioned elsewhere but why is the series ending in August?! The WEC has crap scheduling but at least it's spread over most of the year. It's what I dislike the most about American Football, there's all this crap for 9 months of the year then a 3 month intense wankfest when everything happens before it all dies down again. It feels a bit similar with IndyCar.

Finally, just how bad are costs and budgets currently in IndyCar? I get the whole need for a spec chassis to save costs and help the smaller guys but for me it cheapens the series to some degree. Especially with the bodywork designed the way it is. It's meant to be distinctive, memorable, I get that. But large parts of it are clearly pointless. I have the same issue with Formula E, especially those front wheel fenders! The Chevy/Honda aero kits to me seem like a forced issue, a bit like F1 teams having to use both tyre compounds in the race. No-one really wants to do it but the rulemakers say it must happen so it does. To me it seems the IndyCar organisers saw fans wanted different cars, rules opened up etc, and basically forced the engine suppliers to go and make the kits whether they wanted to or not. So all very artificial, not in the pursuit of a faster car or technological advancement. Basically variety for variety's sake which is wrong in my mind.

Quite a long post, sorry about that. Just some thoughts from a guy who doesn't watch IndyCar very much!