The Junior Series Thread

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 08 Mar 2015, 22:31

BBC regional news here in the south (South Today) have just shown images of Dean Stoneman's testing accident and bloody hell was it a big one.
Edit: here is a link to a news article I found.
http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11841613. ... _fireball/

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 11 Mar 2015, 10:46

The German F4 grid is filling up..Newey Jr. joins Schumacher Jr. at Van Amersfoort....http://www.paddockscout.com/harrison-newey-adds-adac-f4-to-his-2015-programme/

Also, Esteban Ocon will partner Marvin Kirchhofer in a mouthwatering ART lineup in 2015. http://www.paddockscout.com/esteban-ocon-to-race-in-gp3-for-art-grand-prix/

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Mar 2015, 11:22

wsrgo wrote:Also, Esteban Ocon will partner Marvin Kirchhofer in a mouthwatering ART lineup in 2015. http://www.paddockscout.com/esteban-ocon-to-race-in-gp3-for-art-grand-prix/

I find it amazing that the guy who won F3 in his rookie year, beating the most hyped driver since Lewis Hamilton in the process, had money troubles and had to settle for GP3 instead of moving into GP2...

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 11 Mar 2015, 13:03

DanielPT wrote:
wsrgo wrote:Also, Esteban Ocon will partner Marvin Kirchhofer in a mouthwatering ART lineup in 2015. http://www.paddockscout.com/esteban-ocon-to-race-in-gp3-for-art-grand-prix/

I find it amazing that the guy who won F3 in his rookie year, beating the most hyped driver since Lewis Hamilton in the process, had money troubles and had to settle for GP3 instead of moving into GP2...

Well, it must be remembered that while Ocon did win in his rookie F3 season, he did have two seasons of prior experience in Formula Renault 2.0, while Verstappen was fresh out of karts.

But yes, it is rather sad to see Ocon not being able to get a big seat. There were rumours in the off-season that Gravity Sports Management (which runs the Lotus juniors) had fired him, and that Nicolas Todt's All Road Management had taken him up. Todt runs the ART team too. For the moment, it seems he has retained his Lotus backing, but it seems his talent is being wasted in Lotus's direction-less young driver programme. Sadly, with Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari's junior teams fully stocked up as well, there's really no place for him to go. Merc might consider him, but I think they're focusing on Wehrlein as a long-term prospect now. Things look grim.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Mar 2015, 13:08

wsrgo wrote: Sadly, with Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari's junior teams fully stocked up as well, there's really no place for him to go. Merc might consider him, but I think they're focusing on Wehrlein as a long-term prospect now. Things look grim.

I know Mercedes must feel that they have the current driver pairing locked for a long time and all but, come on, Wehrlein as a long-term prospect? Only makes sense in a test driver role because, let's face it, they have the weakest junior driver within the front teams and they should know it.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Mar 2015, 13:20

DanielPT wrote:
wsrgo wrote: Sadly, with Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari's junior teams fully stocked up as well, there's really no place for him to go. Merc might consider him, but I think they're focusing on Wehrlein as a long-term prospect now. Things look grim.

I know Mercedes must feel that they have the current driver pairing locked for a long time and all but, come on, Wehrlein as a long-term prospect? Only makes sense in a test driver role because, let's face it, they have the weakest junior driver within the front teams and they should know it.

Yeah but let's face facts, Mercedes' junior team is all about funneling drivers to DTM, not F1.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 11 Mar 2015, 13:37

DanielPT wrote:
wsrgo wrote: Sadly, with Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari's junior teams fully stocked up as well, there's really no place for him to go. Merc might consider him, but I think they're focusing on Wehrlein as a long-term prospect now. Things look grim.

I know Mercedes must feel that they have the current driver pairing locked for a long time and all but, come on, Wehrlein as a long-term prospect? Only makes sense in a test driver role because, let's face it, they have the weakest junior driver within the front teams and they should know it.

Wehrlein's actually a pretty handy driver, he was an F3 rookie back in 2012 and nearly did an Ocon. DTM is not a walk in the park, but he's done quite well there so far. While he's definitely not as good as Verstappen, he's definitely one Merc should consider for the future. Of course, they'll probably take Alonso

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Mar 2015, 15:36

Salamander wrote:Yeah but let's face facts, Mercedes' junior team is all about funneling drivers to DTM, not F1.

My point exactly.

wsrgo wrote:Wehrlein's actually a pretty handy driver, he was an F3 rookie back in 2012 and nearly did an Ocon. DTM is not a walk in the park, but he's done quite well there so far. While he's definitely not as good as Verstappen, he's definitely one Merc should consider for the future. Of course, they'll probably take Alonso

The long prospect that I was talking about was a place in F1. What I am going at is what is the point of grooming a young reserve driver if his future lies in DTM. But ok, maybe Mercedes are the only team not doing so.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 21 Mar 2015, 00:32

A while ago I posted the points per race rankings of the best GP2 drivers and tried to objectively rank the rookies, well that was half way through the season and as we draw close to the start of 2015 GP2 season, I have updated the list so it is now up to date. I present, the GP2 all time super grid.

1 Lewis Hamilton 5.43
2 Nico Rosberg 5.22
3 Nico Hulkenberg 5
4 Heikki Kovalainen 4.56
5 Stoeffel Vandoorne 3.99
6 Romain Grosjean 3.62
7 Timo Glock 3.48
8 Nelson Piquet JNR 3.36
9 Alexander Premat 3.02
10 Scott Speed 2.93
11 Pastor Maldonado 2.89
12 Lucas di Grassi 2.81
13 Sam Bird 2.8
14 Jules Bianchi 2.76
15 James Calado 2.76
16 Giorgio Pantano 2.68
17 Felipe Nasr 2.67
18 Bruno Senna 2.39
19 Sergio Perez 2.35
20 Giedo van der Garde 2.27
21 Arthur Pic 2.16
22 Jolyon Palmer 2.16
23 Oliver Turvey 2.14
24 Charles Pic 2.12
25 Esteban Gutierrez 2.08
26 Christian Vietoris 2.06
27 Kazuki Nakajima 2
28 Mitch Evans 2
29 Fabio Leimer 1.98
30 Vitaly Petrov 1.96
31 Davide Valsecchi 1.9
32 Sebastien Buemi 1.87
33 Luiz Razia 1.8
34 Adam Carroll 1.79
35 Neel Jani 1.78
36 Luca Fillipi 1.66
37 Gianmaria Bruni 1.62
38 Marcus Ericsson 1.6
39 Robin Frijns 1.57
40 Alvaro Parente 1.52
41 Jose Maria Lopez 1.5
42 Stefano Colletti 1.43
43 EJ Viso 1.37
44 Nicholas Lappiere 1.31
45 Dani Clos 1.3
46 Rafaele Marciello 1.29
47 Marco Sorensen 1.29
48 Alexander Rossi 1.25
49 Jerome d'Ambrosio 1.22
50 Tom Dillman 1.21
51 Max Chilton 1.2
52 Andy Zuber 1.2
53 Stephane Richellmi 1.10
54 Johnny Ceccotto JR 1.07
55 Borja Garcia 1.06
56 Edoardo Piscopo 1.00
Karun Chandhok 0.95
Kamui Kobayashi 0.58
Sakon Yamamoto 0.14

All drivers with a score greater than 1 point per race + all F1 drivers are on this list. The 2nd half of the season was amazing for Vandoorne as he shot up the leaderboard to the 5th best scoring rate ever, overtaking Premat as the highest scoring driver not to make it to F1 (yet) an astonishing job for a rookie driver in a series that has not been kind to rookies of late. This is the reason Stoeffel is so highly tipped for success. Arthur Pic, (21st) for now, has managed to just surpass his brother Charles (23rd) by the slimmest of margins. Marco Sorensen's mid season switch to GP2 was very succesful, the Dane in the unfancied MP team has managed a scoring rate that puts him inside the top 50. Rossi also makes it into the top 50 and there have been some heavy score improvements from Mitch Evans, Nasr and championship winner Palmer. Not everyone can be winners though, Jon Lancaster's move to Hilmer was a disaster and his PPR has collapsed to 0.8, putting him off the list.

yannicksamlad · Post by **yannicksamlad** » 23 Mar 2015, 11:01

Shadaza's analysis of rookies shows ART can pick ( get to choose ) good 'uns, and deliver them a good car. Interesting stuff. Of course some came from their F3 operation so were well attuned.

Separately - as there is no Germany this year it seems maybe they are looking for a stand alone replacement. Brands Hatch'd be nice for me, but maybe they could do Pau ( like old style F2/F3000 used to )! I think that'd be fun.
And I'm rooting for Canamasas to get a drive ( but worried he'll wind up with career-killers Hilmer); I like a bit of fast'n'furious!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 23 Mar 2015, 15:36

yannicksamlad wrote:And I'm rooting for Canamasas to get a drive ( but worried he'll wind up with career-killers Hilmer); I like a bit of fast'n'furious!

There's fast and furious, then there's slow and a severe threat to the safety of every of driver out there.

AdrianBelmonte_ · Post by **AdrianBelmonte_** » 23 Mar 2015, 16:04

Shadaza wrote:A while ago I posted the points per race rankings of the best GP2 drivers and tried to objectively rank the rookies, well that was half way through the season and as we draw close to the start of 2015 GP2 season, I have updated the list so it is now up to date. I present, the GP2 all time super grid.

1 Lewis Hamilton 5.43
2 Nico Rosberg 5.22
3 Nico Hulkenberg 5
4 Heikki Kovalainen 4.56
5 Stoeffel Vandoorne 3.99
6 Romain Grosjean 3.62
7 Timo Glock 3.48
8 Nelson Piquet JNR 3.36
9 Alexander Premat 3.02
10 Scott Speed 2.93
11 Pastor Maldonado 2.89
12 Lucas di Grassi 2.81
13 Sam Bird 2.8
14 Jules Bianchi 2.76
15 James Calado 2.76
16 Giorgio Pantano 2.68
17 Felipe Nasr 2.67
18 Bruno Senna 2.39
19 Sergio Perez 2.35
20 Giedo van der Garde 2.27
21 Arthur Pic 2.16
22 Oliver Turvey 2.14
23 Charles Pic 2.12
24 Esteban Gutierrez 2.08
25 Christian Vietoris 2.06
26 Jolyon Palmer 2.06
27 Kazuki Nakajima 2
28 Mitch Evans 2
29 Fabio Leimer 1.98
30 Vitaly Petrov 1.96
31 Davide Valsecchi 1.9
32 Sebastien Buemi 1.87
33 Luiz Razia 1.8
34 Adam Carroll 1.79
35 Neel Jani 1.78
36 Luca Fillipi 1.66
37 Gianmaria Bruni 1.62
38 Marcus Ericsson 1.6
39 Robin Frijns 1.57
40 Alvaro Parente 1.52
41 Jose Maria Lopez 1.5
42 Stefano Colletti 1.43
43 EJ Viso 1.37
44 Nicholas Lappiere 1.31
45 Dani Clos 1.3
46 Rafaele Marciello 1.29
47 Marco Sorensen 1.29
48 Alexander Rossi 1.25
49 Jerome d'Ambrosio 1.22
50 Tom Dillman 1.21
51 Max Chilton 1.2
52 Andy Zuber 1.2
53 Stephane Richellmi 1.10
54 Johnny Ceccotto JR 1.07
55 Borja Garcia 1.06
56 Edoardo Piscopo 1.00
Karun Chandhok 0.95
Kamui Kobayashi 0.58
Sakon Yamamoto 0.14

All drivers with a score greater than 1 point per race + all F1 drivers are on this list. The 2nd half of the season was amazing for Vandoorne as he shot up the leaderboard to the 5th best scoring rate ever, overtaking Premat as the highest scoring driver not to make it to F1 (yet) an astonishing job for a rookie driver in a series that has not been kind to rookies of late. This is the reason Stoeffel is so highly tipped for success. Arthur Pic, (21st) for now, has managed to just surpass his brother Charles (23rd) by the slimmest of margins. Marco Sorensen's mid season switch to GP2 was very succesful, the Dane in the unfancied MP team has managed a scoring rate that puts him inside the top 50. Rossi also makes it into the top 50 and there have been some heavy score improvements from Mitch Evans, Nasr and championship winner Palmer. Not everyone can be winners though, Jon Lancaster's move to Hilmer was a disaster and his PPR has collapsed to 0.8, putting him off the list.

On that list I miss people like Can Artam, Ferdinando Monfardini, Kohei Hirate or even Tristan Gommendy

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 23 Mar 2015, 18:21

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:On that list I miss people like Can Artam, Ferdinando Monfardini, Kohei Hirate or even Tristan Gommendy

I only added the drivers that scored at a rate of more than 1 point per race. Artam only scored 2 in 1 whole season. Monfardini only scored 11 points in 2 years (40 races!), Hirate scored 9 points in 21 rounds Gommendy scored 6 points in 9 races. So of all of them Gommendy had the most promise, but they fall some way short of the 1:1 ratio needed to make the list.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 Mar 2015, 18:58

Shadaza wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:On that list I miss people like Can Artam, Ferdinando Monfardini, Kohei Hirate or even Tristan Gommendy

I only added the drivers that scored at a rate of more than 1 point per race. Artam only scored 2 in 1 whole season. Monfardini only scored 11 points in 2 years (40 races!), Hirate scored 9 points in 21 rounds Gommendy scored 6 points in 9 races. So of all of them Gommendy had the most promise, but they fall some way short of the 1:1 ratio needed to make the list.

And yet Carmen Jorda (whose best finish was 13th) still ends up with a Lotus development driver role, which is more than many of these points scorers managed. She really must have convinced Lotus somehow that she had some assets of worth...

watka · Post by **watka** » 24 Mar 2015, 00:01

Shadaza wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:On that list I miss people like Can Artam, Ferdinando Monfardini, Kohei Hirate or even Tristan Gommendy

I only added the drivers that scored at a rate of more than 1 point per race. Artam only scored 2 in 1 whole season. Monfardini only scored 11 points in 2 years (40 races!), Hirate scored 9 points in 21 rounds Gommendy scored 6 points in 9 races. So of all of them Gommendy had the most promise, but they fall some way short of the 1:1 ratio needed to make the list.

Just looked up Kohei Hirate and one of the first things that come up was this horrific accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs3Q4OJMfKo

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 24 Mar 2015, 19:52

watka wrote:
Shadaza wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:On that list I miss people like Can Artam, Ferdinando Monfardini, Kohei Hirate or even Tristan Gommendy

I only added the drivers that scored at a rate of more than 1 point per race. Artam only scored 2 in 1 whole season. Monfardini only scored 11 points in 2 years (40 races!), Hirate scored 9 points in 21 rounds Gommendy scored 6 points in 9 races. So of all of them Gommendy had the most promise, but they fall some way short of the 1:1 ratio needed to make the list.

Just looked up Kohei Hirate and one of the first things that come up was this horrific accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs3Q4OJMfKo

Damn, that was bad.

Post by **Ataxia** » 15 Apr 2015, 11:27

With GP2 kicking off again this weekend, there are some bits of news pertaining to the arse-end of the grid. First, Hilmer won't be racing...presumably due to money issues. Secondly, everyone's least favourite "driver" has stumped up the money to partner De Jong at MP, making it possibly the worst lineup on the grid. Can you possibly guess who it might be?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Apr 2015, 12:16

Ataxia wrote:With GP2 kicking off again this weekend, there are some bits of news pertaining to the arse-end of the grid. First, Hilmer won't be racing...presumably due to money issues. Secondly, everyone's least favourite "driver" has stumped up the money to partner De Jong at MP, making it possibly the worst lineup on the grid. Can you possibly guess who it might be?

Oh. I was hoping it was going to be the Fire King, Plamen Kralev.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 15 Apr 2015, 16:56

Ataxia wrote:With GP2 kicking off again this weekend, there are some bits of news pertaining to the arse-end of the grid. First, Hilmer won't be racing...presumably due to money issues. Secondly, everyone's least favourite "driver" has stumped up the money to partner De Jong at MP, making it possibly the worst lineup on the grid. Can you possibly guess who it might be?

I literally guessed Adderly Fong.

watka · Post by **watka** » 15 Apr 2015, 23:42

More like Sergio Canajackass

yannicksamlad · Post by **yannicksamlad** » 16 Apr 2015, 10:21

I'll stick up for Sergio; Sochi and Monaco. And refusing to be run off the road (in Hungary I think) by the other guy edging towards him and hoping to pin him in tight ( a tactic I really don't think is completely OK) .
I shall acknowledge his 'moments' but I disprove the assertion that he's everyone's least favourite driver. I like him .

And Hilmer seem to say they think they'll be in Barcelona ( maybe with Canamasas, who knows) . Hope to see them - the more the merrier.
Also hoping DRS doesn't lead to too much madness ( I'm not keen ) given that the relative performance of cars can be large as the tyres come and go , and people pit. Anyone think DRS was a good idea for GP2?
Will DRS make it repetitive leapfrog- like some US racing where you're better off in 2nd on the penultimate lap ..?

Post by **tommykl** » 16 Apr 2015, 12:06

watka wrote:More like Sergio Canajackass

If you prefer a kids-friendly version, we have the well-established Sergio Can'tamassas...

AdrianBelmonte_ · Post by **AdrianBelmonte_** » 18 Apr 2015, 11:20

Vandoornewinslol

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Apr 2015, 11:44

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:Vandoornewinslol

Not really.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 18 Apr 2015, 12:54

Let me tell you something - I thought it was just him doing glory laps to appease the sponsors, but it seems to me that Nobuharu Matsushita is actually pretty good.
Not just good for a Japanese driver who's on his first season of racing in Europe, but GP2-driver-F1-prospect good

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 18 Apr 2015, 14:09

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:Vandoornewinslol

Did you watch the race?

watka · Post by **watka** » 18 Apr 2015, 23:50

Vandoorne had to work for it but he has bags of talent and you just felt it was never in doubt. Norman Nato on the other hand needs to learn some racecraft. That's not how you defend.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 19 Apr 2015, 08:51

watka wrote:Vandoorne had to work for it but he has bags of talent and you just felt it was never in doubt.

Maybe you didn't, but I have a very high opinion of the guy and I couldn't see how he was gonna win that race with only a 10 second margin on Rossi at the time of his stop.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 19 Apr 2015, 11:31

And Canamasas has already once again proven why he shouldn't be ever allowed to drive a racecar - he forced Jordan King half off the track, and then turned into him as if King wasn't even there. Does this guy have to kill someone before something gets done? How much is he paying the stewards to continue to make a mockery of driving standards in GP2?

Post by **Londoner** » 19 Apr 2015, 11:31

What the hell is it gonna take for Sergio Canamasas to be banned forever from racing? That was disgraceful driving against Jordan King just then.

AdrianBelmonte_ · Post by **AdrianBelmonte_** » 19 Apr 2015, 11:50

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 19 Apr 2015, 11:52

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:

Absolutely love that, Typical Can'tamasas

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 19 Apr 2015, 12:38

Best day. Ever. For now. More to come!

yannicksamlad · Post by **yannicksamlad** » 20 Apr 2015, 15:40

...possibly being a little harsh on Canamasas when Mitch Evans did essentially the same thing??

Either driver could've avoided it ..to me it was just one of those things , and there was a lot of 'squeezing ' going on elsewhere in the field ( and in F1) , but that does add to the excitement. And boy is GP2 exciting!

But whilst DRS made it a bit too easy to pass , it was the tyres that really bothered me - the results are so tyre dependent. Mark Webber commented on them and I agree - its too random when the difference is 6/7 seconds per lap just because your tyres have gone . Stoffel knows how to look after them , and it'll be handy in F1 for him, but I'd prefer some more realistic racing , rather than a bit of a lottery.

Or is it just me? ( Possibly the defence of Canamasas will be just me...but what about the tyres?)

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 20 Apr 2015, 15:47

yannicksamlad wrote:...possibly being a little harsh on Canamasas when Mitch Evans did essentially the same thing??

Not really? Leal had at least the kerb, King was on the dirt. Kerbs are okay to race on. Dirt isn't.

There's also the fact that King was ahead - albeit still partially alongside - and Canamasas visibly turned into him.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 22 Apr 2015, 09:01

yannicksamlad wrote:...possibly being a little harsh on Canamasas when Mitch Evans did essentially the same thing??

Either driver could've avoided it ..to me it was just one of those things , and there was a lot of 'squeezing ' going on elsewhere in the field ( and in F1) , but that does add to the excitement. And boy is GP2 exciting!

But whilst DRS made it a bit too easy to pass , it was the tyres that really bothered me - the results are so tyre dependent. Mark Webber commented on them and I agree - its too random when the difference is 6/7 seconds per lap just because your tyres have gone . Stoffel knows how to look after them , and it'll be handy in F1 for him, but I'd prefer some more realistic racing , rather than a bit of a lottery.

Dunno, I think the tyres really add to the spectacle, which is something that DRS destroys. With tyres, you at least get a fair chance as long as you have a well thought out strategy. With DRS it's just one-sided advantage to the car behind. I personally think that the sprint charges had a lot more to do with the DRS than tyres.

Dunk DRS. Unfortunately, people seem to dig it. I don't understand why.

Or is it just me? ( Possibly the defence of Canamasas will be just me...but what about the tyres?)

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 24 Apr 2015, 09:36

#WSRwatch Mathieu Vaxiviere continues his dominance of the Aragon track in recent times with P1 in the opening test session here. Gustav Malja was second, with Beitske Visser (separate women's championship, Bernie?) in third.
Two British title favourites Oliver Rowland and Dean Stoneman were only ninth and tenth, but it's still early days. McLaren junior de Vries was fifth.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 24 Apr 2015, 10:19

Nice piece here about the GP2 class of 2005, including rejects Scott Speed, Giorgio Pantano, Gianmaria Bruni, and almost reject Jose Maria Lopez: http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/23/as-gp2-turns-10-years-old-where-is-the-class-of-05-now/

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Apr 2015, 11:20

With the first race of this season's Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 Series in the books, I'm sure every forum member will be ecstatic to hear that Jean-Denis Deletraz's son Louis Deletraz had the race entirely within his control, starting from pole, setting fastest lap, and leading every lap on his way to a fairly comfortable 2-second win over Ben Barnicoat.

yannicksamlad · Post by **yannicksamlad** » 25 Apr 2015, 20:39

wsrgo wrote:#WSRwatch Mathieu Vaxiviere continues his dominance of the Aragon track in recent times with P1 in the opening test session here. Gustav Malja was second, with Beitske Visser (separate women's championship, Bernie?) in third.
Two British title favourites Oliver Rowland and Dean Stoneman were only ninth and tenth, but it's still early days. McLaren junior de Vries was fifth.

There are some drivers of real interest in Renault3.5 (and 2.0 with Deletraz), but Race 1 Aragon was very restrained. A 20 car field meant that first lap contretemps and unreliability meant there weren't many runners on lap 2 actually racing ( about 14) ...and in fact bizarrely it was Roy Nissany's attempts to unlap himself that gave us the majority of passing in the race. Seemed impossible to pass....
GP2 beats it hands down for entertainment ...and quality I think.
Of course tomorrow's race can now prove me wrong.