What If?

[DOSBoot]

What if Emerson Fittipaldi stayed with McLaren instead of joining he, and his brother's team?

[Miguel98]

What if Emerson Fittipaldi stayed with McLaren instead of joining he, and his brother's team?

He would've won the 1976 World Champioship, and probably could have fought for the title in 1977, and maybe even win it.

[Ataxia]

What if Olivier Panis signed with Arrows for the 2000 season?

I think he had the potential to score points in some races, but only the low downforce ones like Monza and Hockenheim. Beaides that, I think he wouldn't have really impressed much. It seems as if he was never the same driver after his crash at Montréal 1997. If that never happened, I think he would have done better.

Apologies for being a little late with this one, but I dug out an old F1 Racing magazine c. 2001 with an interview with Olivier Panis.

The accident surely affected Panis, but in 1999 he had to deal with the death of Peter Poeliejoe-Vewald, his manager at the time. Panis cited himself that the emotional fallout affected his driving further.

However, in the strange way the world works, this actually helped Panis out; he signed a management deal with Keke Rosberg's company and his affairs were subsequently managed by Didier Coton. Coton knew that Panis had to rebuild his confidence, so he got him the McLaren test gig which helped rebuild Olivier's stock in F1.

Had Olivier gone to Arrows, then he may not have been quite as effective. I doubt that he'd have impressed enough to get something like the BAR gig in 2001; he might have lucked into a Sauber seat, but ultimately Panis' career would have been over before 2004.

[More_Blue_Flags]

What if Emerson Fittipaldi stayed with McLaren instead of joining he, and his brother's team?

He would've won the 1976 World Champioship, and probably could have fought for the title in 1977, and maybe even win it.

That's a good 'what if'. I'm not sure I agree that Fittipaldi would have won the title in 1976, but he would have been the most serious competition for Lauda that year and still got on the podium (maybe a win or two) in 1977 although McLaren are starting to be left behind by then. If Lauda still has his Nurburgring accident, then Fittipaldi will go close, but if not then the WDC will probably be a clear win to Lauda, Fittipaldi a clear second, then the rest of the pack somewhere behind. If the first-lap chaos at Brands Hatch occurred as in real life, would the crowd have pressured the stewards into letting Fittipaldi restart as they did for Hunt? Probably not.

What would have happened to Hunt? I expect he would have driven for the Wolf-Williams concern or another midfield/backmarker team, and subsequently never getting an opportunity to move into a top team. If he finished his career after a few more seasons with only one win with the Hesketh to his name, would he have ended up partnering Murray Walker? Again, probably not.

The 'where to next after McLaren' question for Fittipaldi depends to an extent on what happens with the Copersucar effort. If it is still running by 1977-78, family loyalty and national pride will see Fittipaldi still end up there. If it has folded (or, alternatively, never starts), Fittipaldi most likely leaves F1 around 1977 and perhaps starts a CART career a few years earlier? (I don't know enough about CART to suggest what a early 1980's CART career could have looked like, or if there would have been any interest in luring Fittipaldi into CART's inaugural season in 1979?)

[Dom_Wings]

Here's mine.

What would happen to Bobby Rahal's CART/IndyCar career (and maybe the team he also founded) if he stayed in F1 for more than just two races in the Wolf team?
He started racing in CART four years after his F1 stint and between these raced sportscars, but I got no idea what could happen during a longer stay.

[Bleu]

Panis's year with McLaren was kind of turnaround regarding test drivers. Following that top teams chose much more experienced drivers to test, while earlier many top teams had young driver there.

[Dj_bereta]

What if Emerson Fittipaldi had stayed in F1 until the 1996 season (the year that he retired from Cart)?

[Nessafox]

What if Emerson Fittipaldi had stayed in F1 until the 1996 season (the year that he retired from Cart)?

I really don't see which team would be willing to keep him that long. But perhaps he could make it halfway trough the eighties.

[Dom_Wings]

Seeing a 50-year-old in F1, especially in the mid 90's, would make everybody feel like they were 40 years back.

[Wallio]

Here's mine.

What would happen to Bobby Rahal's CART/IndyCar career (and maybe the team he also founded) if he stayed in F1 for more than just two races in the Wolf team?
He started racing in CART four years after his F1 stint and between these raced sportscars, but I got no idea what could happen during a longer stay.

Or what if Newey had stayed on and Designed the Ferrari CART racer?

[tommykl]

Here's one I came up with in the chatroom.

What if Nigel Mansell had indeed retired after 1990, as he'd promised numerous times?

[Dj_bereta]

Here's one I came up with in the chatroom.

What if Nigel Mansell had indeed retired after 1990, as he'd promised numerous times?

Boutsen stayed at Williams for 1991 and 1992 season for sure. Senna still wins the 1991 championship, but in 1992, Boutsen wins. First Belgian to wins a title in F1. For 1993 season, Williams still drop both drivers for Hill and Prost. Boutsen goes to Ligier, alongside with Brundle, but ends the championship behind of his team mate. For 1994 season, he stays with Ligier, alongside with rookie Panis. The Belgian finishes the championship ahead of his team mate, but the lack of good results and the lack of seats for good teams makes him leaves F1.

[James1978]

Time for a new one that's come to mind based on the fight between this year's Mercedes drivers and reading up on the 2007/8 silly season - what if, for 2008, McLaren had managed to buy Nico Rosberg out of his Williams contract and signed him alongside Hamilton for 2008 - would this year's battle have happened 6 years earlier, or given how close it was between McLaren and Ferrari, would having their drivers fight have handed the championship to Massa?

[mario]

Time for a new one that's come to mind based on the fight between this year's Mercedes drivers and reading up on the 2007/8 silly season - what if, for 2008, McLaren had managed to buy Nico Rosberg out of his Williams contract and signed him alongside Hamilton for 2008 - would this year's battle have happened 6 years earlier, or given how close it was between McLaren and Ferrari, would having their drivers fight have handed the championship to Massa?

If Rosberg and Hamilton were paired up at McLaren, I suspect that there might not have been as much fighting as we are seeing now - Ron Dennis would have been in the garage to keep both drivers in line, and I suspect that Hamilton might have been more flexible at the time given he was still adapting to the sport and the team.

Asides from that, a bigger aspect would probably be the fact that McLaren would be in a position where it could direct the focus of their two drivers away from each other and towards Ferrari. Part of the reason why things have soured at Mercedes could be because Rosberg and Hamilton is because there is no external rival - they are focussed on each other all the time, whereas having an obvious external rival would divert at least some of their anxieties and frustrations away from the team.
By contrast, in 2008 McLaren were facing a threat from Raikkonen, Massa and Kubica - when you're potentially facing more threats from outside than within the team, I suspect that it would probably take longer for things to come to a head. If you look at Red Bull, some of the worst squabbles between Webber and Vettel came in times when there was relatively limited competition from other teams, such that it was obvious that it was going to be a Red Bull driver that would win the WDC. That's not to say they were always amicable even when there was more competition, but it took some of the heat out of their battles when there was another driver in between them.

Speaking of Ferrari, I suspect that such a scenario probably would have handed the WDC to Massa - given that the F2008 was considered to be slightly superior, I suspect that it is more likely that the two McLaren drivers would have taken more points away from each other rather than from the two Ferrari drivers. It might have put McLaren closer to Ferrari in the WCC - whether that would have also been affected is hard to say.

[Normal32]

What if Mazzacane would have signed for Arrows?

[roblo97]

What if McLaren raced with the Lamborghini V12 for the last 2 races of 1993 and for the 1994 season?

[dinizintheoven]

This thread's been going so long I've clean forgotten if it's been asked before. But anyway...

How would Caterham or Marussia have fared had they had a Mercedes engine this season? Would that have been able to make up for the obvious deficits in the chassis? Let's face it, Marussia might have points on the board but on pure pace they're still a clear second and a half slower than whichever team makes up 17th and 18th place on the grid (usually Toleman-Benetton-and-used-to-be-Renault or Sauber). And, back when they were Virgin, there was a technical partnership with Merc-powered McLaren brewing, even if a lot more was shared with Force India and McLaren no longer get works support ahead of their upcoming switch to thromping Japanese power. And what of Caterham? At least we have some kind of a precedent there, when all those expectations of 2011 came crashing down when the Renault engine and two-year-old Red Bull gearbox (from a winning car, no less) couldn't compensate for the chassis which was still so lacking the team were still mired at the back of the grid.

I suspect the answer to this is more involved than "they'd still be at the back".

Mario?

[Backmarker]

http://thejudge13.com/#Rossi%20offered%20Ferrari%20contract

So apparently Valentino Rossi was offered a seat at Ferrari for 2007 alongside Kimi Raikkonen. The question is: what if he had taken up the offer?

While Rossi apparently had some impressive test times, I can't see him doing as well in real F1. For one thing, everyone he would have been up against had been in regular four-wheel racing since they were about 8 years old - Rossi last drove a kart in the early 90s.

[Captain Hammer]

thejudge13 is not a source. He used to trawl F1 Fanatic, looking for views - the equivalent of a YouTube video asking for likes and subscriptions. All he ever did was combine cynicism and speculation. Joe Saward is a better journalist, and while I might have been gone for eighteen months, I still think that Saward is still a hack.

[girry]

Have seen that Rossi story in many other places too so it's a totally valid question to me. And it's the what if thread after all, so who cares if it didn't actually happen?

[Londoner]

I still think that Saward is still a hack.

I feel the same way about F1 Fanatic now. Keith Collantine's great at getting news out and validated, but I swear his opinions on motorsport are just wrong, every time. This snarky tweet about budget caps from last night was the final straw for me.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I still think that Saward is still a hack.

I feel the same way about F1 Fanatic now. Keith Collantine's great at getting news out and validated, but I swear his opinions on motorsport are just wrong, every time. This snarky tweet about budget caps from last night was the final straw for me.

The comment sections of articles on F1 Fanatic have become a joke over the past year, definitely more trolls than I remember from when I was a regular user (at least I hope they're just trolls). There are still intelligent comments from people who actually know what they're talking about but there's also quite a bit of classic Lewisteria: People leaping to his side when the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how justified, is thrown at him and calling Rosberg a cheat and a mediocre driver at any given opportunity.

[roblo97]

I still think that Saward is still a hack.

I feel the same way about F1 Fanatic now. Keith Collantine's great at getting news out and validated, but I swear his opinions on motorsport are just wrong, every time. This snarky tweet about budget caps from last night was the final straw for me.

The comment sections of articles on F1 Fanatic have become a joke over the past year, definitely more trolls than I remember from when I was a regular user (at least I hope they're just trolls). There are still intelligent comments from people who actually know what they're talking about but there's also quite a bit of classic Lewisteria: People leaping to his side when the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how justified, is thrown at him and calling Rosberg a cheat and a mediocre driver at any given opportunity.

I joined that place at about the same time as here, that is how I knew how much of a moron Joey Zyla was before he found this place.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I joined that place at about the same time as here, that is how I knew how much of a moron Joey Zyla was before he found this place.

I certainly remember him from back in the day! Unfortunately I wasn't following this forum when he was a member and it seems all of his posts have been deleted. I'm sure they would have made for some entertaining reading!

I'm going to try and bring this back on-topic before it descends into a discussion about swimming horses. I'll attempt to answer dinizintheoven's question about the backmarkers' possible performance with Mercedes engines (though don't expect a great answer, I'm definitely sure there's someone here who can give a better one ). I would say they would obviously be a lot closer to the rest of the pack. Taking Marussia first of all they were closer to the other teams than any of the 2010 "new teams" at the start of the year and I could definitely see them being ahead of Sauber on pure pace and possibly the odd Lotus too. They might have snuck into the points on one or two occasions with chances becoming more and more scarce as the development race wore on and of course with the FRIC ban, though points would still be wishful thinking most of the time even with the performance boost.

As for Caterham much of the same as above. They were close to and on occasion beating Marussia early on in the season, then of course they quickly turned into a classic reject team during the Summer. Ericsson could very well have finished in the points at Monaco with other potential and rare opportunities elsewhere. They would certainly be closer in relation to when they switched to Renault engines in 2011. Back in the V8 era the difference in engine performance wasn't as massive as it is now, though the emphasis on downforce was of course much greater and so long as it wasn't a Life W12 in the back the teams would have done well with a car with good downforce, Spa and Monza being the notable exceptions to the rule. The Renault might have been superior to the Cosworth but not in the same respect as the current Mercedes power unit is superior to both the Ferrari and Renault equivalents.

[roblo97]

I joined that place at about the same time as here, that is how I knew how much of a moron Joey Zyla was before he found this place.

I certainly remember him from back in the day! Unfortunately I wasn't following this forum when he was a member and it seems all of his posts have been deleted. I'm sure they would have made for some entertaining reading!

he just spammed posted threads on the forum including one of very bad taste aimed at myself, I think I still have them on gmail somewhere!

[ADx_Wales]

Have seen that Rossi story in many other places too so it's a totally valid question to me. And it's the what if thread after all, so who cares if it didn't actually happen?

Rossi would have had to throw everything into being in F1, if he went about it in the way he went moto gp winning, then he'd probably have been good enough to finish races, to do well though? it's so damn hard to tell, its the same with Loeb, his test runs in a Toro Rosso were more promising than Rossi's were, but then you're looking at different cars being tested, different drivers. It's a good what if, but its damn difficult to put into a scenario.

[Dj_bereta]

What if FIA forces the top teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren) to run a third car in the next year?

What if McLaren raced with the Lamborghini V12 for the last 2 races of 1993 and for the 1994 season?

A lot of engine failures. Senna probably had lost the 2nd place in the championship in 1993. In 1994 season, Mclaren probably had finished behind Jordan in the team championship.

What if Mazzacane would have signed for Arrows?

Alonso alongside with Gene in Minardi and Verstappen out of F1. I think Alonso had matched Gene pace in most of races and probably had a lot better second season.

In arrows side, I imagine a worse season, with Mazzacane around the "minardiville".

[dr-baker]

What if FIA forces the top teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren) to run a third car in the next year?

Well, McLaren/Eric Boullier has already said that they are unable to do so for next year (they need more than 6 months' notice - link), so they may well be penalised for not doing so (at least for the early season flyaways). But if it does happen, perhaps the third drivers at each team could be Red Bull: JEV, Ferrari: Bianchi, then Hulkenberg at either McLaren or Mercedes then one more. But who would replace Bianchi and Hulk further down the field? Pass...

[Captain Hammer]

What if McLaren had kept their cool in Brazil back in 2007 and Alonso or Hamilton won the title? How would history remember Kimi Raikkonen, and would he have returned in 2012?

[CoopsII]

What if McLaren had kept their cool in Brazil back in 2007 and Alonso or Hamilton won the title? How would history remember Kimi Raikkonen, and would he have returned in 2012?

Good one. It's a popular belief that after winning the WDC Raikkonen lost some motivation having acheived his goal so you could argue he may have continued to push until he did. Equally, he may have lost interest beforehand and if he left he would've been alot cheaper to employ on his return

[girry]

Nah, he probably would have done just as bad in 2008 given he wasn't fully happy with the car that year. As this season should have demonstrated, Kimi really cannot deliver when the car doesn't fit him. (Always thought all the talk about his "motivation" being the root cause of his problems is total bullcrap.)

Consequently, I don't believe a title-less Kimi would have left F1 after 2009 - he would have faced Alonso in 2010 most likely, but this time with a Ferrari tuned to his liking. Could've been a closer battle than what we have now imo. but don't think he would ever have become a champ.

[CoopsII]

It's funny how, despite being a one-hit wonder, Raikkonen doesn't seem to get the same negativity for it as other one-hit wonders such as Hill, Villeneuve or Button.

[Aerospeed]

It's funny how, despite being a one-hit wonder, Raikkonen doesn't seem to get the same negativity for it as other one-hit wonders such as Hill, Villeneuve or Button.

At least Raikkonen had a few decent seasons before and after his championship. He very well could have won the 2005 title had the car been more stable.

[good_Ralf]

It's funny how, despite being a one-hit wonder, Raikkonen doesn't seem to get the same negativity for it as other one-hit wonders such as Hill, Villeneuve or Button.

At least Raikkonen had a few decent seasons before and after his championship. He very well could have won the 2005 title had the car been more stable.

And without the engine blow-up in Nurburgring or the quali mistakes in 2003 he would have won that year too.

[takagi_for_the_win]

It's funny how, despite being a one-hit wonder, Raikkonen doesn't seem to get the same negativity for it as other one-hit wonders such as Hill, Villeneuve or Button.

At least Raikkonen had a few decent seasons before and after his championship. He very well could have won the 2005 title had the car been more stable.

To be fair, Button also had monster seasons prior to 2009; if the F2004 wasn't a rocketship, he might've challenged for the title then, and you'd have been hard pressed to find a consistently better driver in the second half of 2006. His 2011 season was also, as many have said before, pretty amazing, but for whatever reason Button seems to have a general image of a plodder.

[Normal32]

What if Caterham score 2 points in yas marina and drop sauber to 11th?

[dinizintheoven]

...if that happens, I'll show you a video of a pig flying over my house!

[Captain Hammer]

for whatever reason Button seems to have a general image of a plodder.

I think there is a perception that he lucked into a stellar car and lazily coasted to the title. But the BGP-001 was developed as the RA109 while Button was at Honda.

As for coasting to the title, the team literally ran out of money. The Silverstone update did more harm than good, and the team were forced to spend what little they had finding a solution. When Rubens Barrichello crashed in Singapore, he switched to the team's only spare chassis. Where other teams build six or eight over the course of a season, Brawn only had the money for three. One mistake from Button in the remaining races would have ruined his title hopes. By the time he did win, he had driven a car that had taken part in every single pre-season test, practice and qualifying session, and race.

[Aerospeed]

for whatever reason Button seems to have a general image of a plodder.

I think there is a perception that he lucked into a stellar car and lazily coasted to the title. But the BGP-001 was developed as the RA109 while Button was at Honda.

As for coasting to the title, the team literally ran out of money. The Silverstone update did more harm than good, and the team were forced to spend what little they had finding a solution. When Rubens Barrichello crashed in Singapore, he switched to the team's only spare chassis. Where other teams build six or eight over the course of a season, Brawn only had the money for three. One mistake from Button in the remaining races would have ruined his title hopes. By the time he did win, he had driven a car that had taken part in every single pre-season test, practice and qualifying session, and race.

Jeez man... I knew Brawn GP was cash strapped but not to that extent. It just makes Brawns' title run that much more amazing.

[Wallio]

for whatever reason Button seems to have a general image of a plodder.

I think there is a perception that he lucked into a stellar car and lazily coasted to the title. But the BGP-001 was developed as the RA109 while Button was at Honda.

As for coasting to the title, the team literally ran out of money. The Silverstone update did more harm than good, and the team were forced to spend what little they had finding a solution. When Rubens Barrichello crashed in Singapore, he switched to the team's only spare chassis. Where other teams build six or eight over the course of a season, Brawn only had the money for three. One mistake from Button in the remaining races would have ruined his title hopes. By the time he did win, he had driven a car that had taken part in every single pre-season test, practice and qualifying session, and race.

Jeez man... I knew Brawn GP was cash strapped but not to that extent. It just makes Brawns' title run that much more amazing.

They were horribly poor. The virgin deal was a joke, and I remember the drivers having to pay for their own travel and laundry services. While they certainly could afford it, it was unprecedented at the time. Ross was pretty much running the team out of pocket, like you would at the club level.