2014 Belgian Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[Enforcer]

Grosjean was banned in 2012 not just because the incident he caused was insanely dangerous but he also took out title contenders (Alonso & Hamilton).

No, I think the ban was almost entirely if not completely because it was insanely dangerous and he could've decapitated Alonso.

[Dan B]

MAGNUSSEN PENALISED. WHAT.

The stewards have announced it is because of his defensive moves against Alonso on the run down to Les Combes - they feel that Magnussen deliberately ran Alonso off the track at high speed in a dangerous manner, hence the time penalty and penalty points (two points for this offence, which now puts him on four points - the same level as Maldonado and Bianchi). http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/08/24/m ... h-penalty/

When that graphic showed up on the screen saying there was going to be an investigation I had a strong feeling Magnussen would be punished. And to be frank, I agree with it; he was erratic and nearly caused a 4 car pileup at one point.

Good race however. The collision between the Mercs seemed to be a racing incident from my view. Yes Rosberg should've backed off, but Hamilton should've not went so wide and really it was clumsy driving from both of them that caused that crash. I really can't buy Hamilton's explanation that Rosberg hit him on purpose. Never mind that Hamilton has a history of lying (though whether or not his story is true is to be determined), but his attitude is rearing its ugly head again, and with that entails all the publicocrap that comes with it.

[mario]

Grosjean was banned in 2012 not just because the incident he caused was insanely dangerous but he also took out title contenders (Alonso & Hamilton).

No, I think the ban was because it was insanely dangerous and he could've decapitated Alonso.

I would guess that good_Ralf is referring to the fact that the stewards did explicitly mention the fact that Grosjean has taken out title contenders in their reasoning for the ban. That in itself wasn't considered to be the primary motive for a ban - it was the fact that many felt the move was reckless and came on the back of several other penalties for bad driving - but the statement by the stewards at the time suggested it was considered to be an aggravating factor.

[fbjim]

Three, three, three wins from lower than third on the grid for Daniel. What a driver.

[Barbazza]

I thought that Magnussen would get a time penalty but I was banking on a 5 second one which would have pushed him behind all the drivers he was fighting and would have been fairer I think.

As for that Hamilton quote - I don't believe anything that comes out of that spoilt brat's mouth any more quite honestly.

[Dan B]

I thought that Magnussen would get a time penalty but I was banking on a 5 second one which would have pushed him behind all the drivers he was fighting and would have been fairer I think.

I too, was expecting a 5 second (or at most a 10 second) penalty, but I guess they were looking at the severity of what Magnussen did. At least that's what I can surmise.

[noiceinmydrink]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

[eagleash]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

I wonder what Hamilton might have said to Rosberg in the de-brief....

[CoopsII]

Good on Ricciardo, a stellar drive.

[Dj_bereta]

I really think the drivers championship is going to be decide in a crash, like was in 1994/1997 seasons.

[fbjim]

Daniel's a fantastic racer, and unlike a certain other Red Bull driver, he tends to do interesting things on the way to winning Grands Prix. I hate Red Bull but can't fault the lad's talent.

[SgtPepper]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

I reckon there has been something lost in translation here - I'm willing to bet Rosberg has stated he tried to get passed Hamilton to prove a point that he is also racing for himself, and that either Hamilton misinterpreted it, or the media misinterpreted his response. Either way it's all gotten a little silly, and what is quite clearly a racing incident has ended up completely overwhelming the delight that is Ricky's third victory (from lower than third on the grid again, I might add).

[Londoner]

Mercedes confirm Lewis WAS truthful in that press conference...

This is only the beginning...

[Jocke1]

Nice to see John Hurt in the pits during the race.

[MrMG]

Nice to see John Hurt in the pits during the race.

Apparently this message was found in the Mercedes garage after the race:

[Pacifics only fan]

Mercedes confirm Lewis WAS truthful in that press conference...

This is only the beginning...

Toto is now saying otherwise....

http://en.espnf1.com/belgium/motorsport ... 72425.html

Looks like all the Merc folks are on different pages..

[Enforcer]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

I reckon there has been something lost in translation here - I'm willing to bet Rosberg has stated he tried to get passed Hamilton to prove a point that he is also racing for himself, and that either Hamilton misinterpreted it, or the media misinterpreted his response. Either way it's all gotten a little silly, and what is quite clearly a racing incident has ended up completely overwhelming the delight that is Ricky's third victory (from lower than third on the grid again, I might add).

So in other words Lewis disobeyed team orders and then gets to be seen as the victim when his team-mate reacted to it.

I think we were here before, weren't we? Just as well Rosberg is a lot better able for Lewis than Alonso was.

[dr-baker]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

I wonder what Hamilton might have said to Rosberg in the de-brief....

Wonder if he acted like a pair of teenage girls?

[eagleash]

The only thing I'm going to say is that 24 hours ago I was looking forward to two drivers having an epic battle on track for the win.

24 hours later, they both crash into each other on lap 2, the Mercedes management have committed suicide and a massive conspiracy has bubbled up.

I don't know who the biggest dickhead here is; Rosberg if he crashed into Hamilton on purpose and then admitting it, Hamilton for more of his childish antics, or Mercedes for publicly blaming one of their drivers for an accident.

I wonder what Hamilton might have said to Rosberg in the de-brief....

Wonder if he acted like a pair of teenage girls?

[mario]

Mercedes confirm Lewis WAS truthful in that press conference...

This is only the beginning...

Toto is now saying otherwise....

http://en.espnf1.com/belgium/motorsport ... 72425.html

Looks like all the Merc folks are on different pages..

Toto's explanation of events does seem to be more logical - that whilst Rosberg did not intend to hit Hamilton, he decided to place his car in such a position that a collision would be inevitable if Hamilton did not yield. In those circumstances, it looks more like a halfway house between the two positions - whilst Nico didn't want to crash, at the same time he was determined to make the point that he would not take avoiding action either and wouldn't back down in the same circumstances.

That said, I would not be surprised if the earlier suggestion that leaned more towards Hamilton's side came from Lauda's side of the team given that he seems to be more openly supportive of Hamilton.

[DonTirri]

Even though Whinelton is doing his best to hog all the headlines with his incessant whining (It was a goddamn racing incident >_> You could see that nico TRIED to avoid it. Just look at it, he does a clear swerve AWAY from Lewis before the impact)
I would like to point out that BOTTAS THIRD! RÄIKKÖNEN FOURTH! Two and a half Finns in top 4. If it wasn't for that smiling Australian, it'd be an almost-all-Finn podium. Good work from Ricciardo though, he's a future world champ, mark.my.words.

[good_Ralf]

I would like to point out that BOTTAS THIRD! RÄIKKÖNEN FOURTH! Two and a half Finns in top 4. If it wasn't for that smiling Australian, it'd be an almost-all-Finn podium. Good work from Ricciardo though, he's a future world champ, mark.my.words.

The way things are going Ricciardo will be the 2014 champ . How heart-crushing that would be for Rosberg...

I liked the fact that for the first time in quite a while, two Finns battled for position in a race. You got a little bit of that with Raikkonen and Kovalainen a few years ago but this felt pretty memorable. I would love for those 2 to make history and make it the first ever Finnish 1-2 (it was 1-3 in Hungary '08). It is possible that Raikkonen, even though Spa is arguably his best track, might well be on the up, but then that could confirm di Montezemolo's ideas for 2015 and confine Bianchi to another year a Marussia...

[Alextrax52]

I would like to point out that BOTTAS THIRD! RÄIKKÖNEN FOURTH! Two and a half Finns in top 4. If it wasn't for that smiling Australian, it'd be an almost-all-Finn podium. Good work from Ricciardo though, he's a future world champ, mark.my.words.

The way things are going Ricciardo will be the 2014 champ . How heart-crushing that would be for Rosberg...

I liked the fact that for the first time in quite a while, two Finns battled for position in a race. You got a little bit of that with Raikkonen and Kovalainen a few years ago but this felt pretty memorable. I would love for those 2 to make history and make it the first ever Finnish 1-2 (it was 1-3 in Hungary '08). It is possible that Raikkonen, even though Spa is arguably his best track, might well be on the up, but then that could confirm di Montezemolo's ideas for 2015 and confine Bianchi to another year a Marussia...

And in Malaysia 2008 too (1 RAI 3 KOV)

[tommykl]

Mercedes confirm Lewis WAS truthful in that press conference...

This is only the beginning...

Toto is now saying otherwise....

http://en.espnf1.com/belgium/motorsport ... 72425.html

Looks like all the Merc folks are on different pages..

Toto's explanation of events does seem to be more logical - that whilst Rosberg did not intend to hit Hamilton, he decided to place his car in such a position that a collision would be inevitable if Hamilton did not yield. In those circumstances, it looks more like a halfway house between the two positions - whilst Nico didn't want to crash, at the same time he was determined to make the point that he would not take avoiding action either and wouldn't back down in the same circumstances.

That said, I would not be surprised if the earlier suggestion that leaned more towards Hamilton's side came from Lauda's side of the team given that he seems to be more openly supportive of Hamilton.

I think that Hamilton is only upset because it was Nico doing something that Senna would have done.

[Paul Hayes]

It's almost tempting to start thinking the unthinkable about this title race, isn't it? That Mercedes are going to do a Williams in 1986, throw away the title and somehow allow the outsider to come through?

It seems incredible, but if relations between Rosberg and Hamilton do completely break down, if they haven't already... Ricciardo couldn't... could he...?

[Salamander]

It's almost tempting to start thinking the unthinkable about this title race, isn't it? That Mercedes are going to do a Williams in 1986, throw away the title and somehow allow the outsider to come through?

It seems incredible, but if relations between Rosberg and Hamilton do completely break down, if they haven't already... Ricciardo couldn't... could he...?

Monza is similar to Spa, but with an ever bigger focus on low downforce. I'd say it's going to be Red Bull's weakest track this year, but given how they went, I think they could still be the 3rd best team at worst. Then you have 2 track's which very much suit Red Bull in Singapore and Suzuka - I think after that point we should know either way if Ricciardo can do anything about the Mercedes'. Still, the way Rosberg just eliminated the gap in those last few laps...

[AustralianStig]

I have to say I'm loving that Niki Lauda is so open and straight with his opinions - it makes a nice change from the political responses you get from most senior team personnel.

Those that are saying F1 isn't entertaining are obviously watching something different to what I've seen this year.

[fbjim]

So this is now the second team that Hamilton's been with that has descended into acrimony and chaos. Both with a teammate who has never been known with having poor relationships with teammates before. Perhaps Hamilton is simply a poor teammate?

[ADx_Wales]

If this was 2007 I would have fallen for it. But I'm not a dikechad anymore.


(edit: slight update, did you spot it? )

[ADx_Wales]

Nice to see John Hurt in the pits during the race.

Apparently this message was found in the Mercedes garage after the race:

Brackleyfrey Falls.

[Cynon]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rosbe ... s-confirms

I would have hit Hamilton, too. He needs to be punted around more anyway.

[johnston21]

If this was 2007...

The image you posted was too funny. Thank you for that...

[noiceinmydrink]

If this was 2007 I would have fallen for it. But I'm not a dikechad anymore.

Fandabbydosy!

[mario]

So this is now the second team that Hamilton's been with that has descended into acrimony and chaos. Both with a teammate who has never been known with having poor relationships with teammates before. Perhaps Hamilton is simply a poor teammate?

I think there was some tension between Webber and Rosberg at times when they were at Williams, which seems to have come about because Webber was the first to mock Rosberg with the nickname of "Britney" (it seems that he sometimes gets quite annoyed at being called that, and it seems that Webber had a habit of using that nickname if he wanted to get under Rosberg's skin).

Otherwise, generally on the whole he seems to have been on good terms with his teammate, or at least not on bad terms (he seemed to be more indifferent towards Nakajima than anything else). Then again, I suppose that part of that could be down to the fact that, typically, he would have had the measure of his team mates (asides from his first season, where Webber's greater experience showed at times).
After all, Kazuki Nakajima rarely posed much of a threat to Rosberg and Wurz was already looking towards retiring - being in a position where you're not directly competing with your teammate certainly makes it easier to be on more amicable terms. As for Schumacher, Darren Heath has occasionally hinted that the relationship there wasn't perhaps quite so rosy (once reportedly claiming that he asked Rosberg to crush Schumacher, to which he claims Rosberg, grinning away, happily promised "Don't worry, I will") - then again, given that Darren Heath has a rather public hatred of Schumacher, I do not discount the possibility that the reports would be exaggerated and biased.

As for Hamilton, well, the relationship between himself and Alonso rapidly soured, though Alonso has indicated that his anger was directed more towards Ron Dennis and the senior management of McLaren rather than Hamilton.

Hamilton was, after all, their protege, and it seems to be the way that Alonso felt they would therefore seek to back "their man", or rather "their investment", in Hamilton that seems to have been as much a cause for recriminations as the personal relationship between Hamilton and Alonso.
By contrast, Alonso was the outsider coming into the team and requesting changes, some of which Ron Dennis was loath to implement. Given how tightly Hamilton was bound in to the team at the time, it's perhaps not surprising things were tense between them when Hamilton was almost the living embodiment of a management Alonso was butting heads with.

He seemed to get on reasonably well with Kovalainen and with Button though, despite fighting the latter for the title in the 2010 season - even his relationship with Rosberg in 2013 was reasonably amicable, although at the same time it was clear that there was no real way that they'd pose a major threat to Vettel that season. If another team, such as Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari were more competitive and putting Mercedes under greater pressure, you'd probably see nothing like as much tension between the two drivers as we see now because both Hamilton and Rosberg would be able to externalise any rivalry.

To a certain extent, I wonder whether it is perhaps as much down to Hamilton perhaps being a poor judge of who to listen to? Lauda, it seems, does have a bias towards Hamilton - there are some reports that Hamilton seems to have developed a strong relationship with Lauda, perhaps in part due to being slightly overawed by his past achievements - and I wonder if perhaps Lauda, who isn't exactly known for compromise, is encouraging and exacerbating some of Hamilton's worse instincts?

Back to the race itself, and Rosberg has now commented on events:

Asked for his opinion about the crash, having watched video replays, Rosberg said: "I have seen it and I don't want to say - but definitely, as the stewards judged it a racing incident, that is the way one can describe it."

Although Hamilton claims that Rosberg told him in a post-race debrief that he deliberately did not avoid the incident because he wanted to "prove a point", the German was more circumspect about his actions when speaking to the media.

He was adamant that the move was not risky at all, and dismissed any suggestion he should have waited another lap until DRS was activated.

"I was quicker at the time and there was an opportunity, so I gave it a go around the outside as the inside was blocked," Rosberg said.

"I didn't see any risk in overtaking, or trying to overtake, so why should I not try? The opportunity was there even without DRS because I was so much quicker, so I gave it a go.

"Inside was not possible, so I tried around the outside. Should I have waited? That is very hypothetical. Who knows what happens afterwards?

"The opportunity was there and, for me, it wasn't a risky situation."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115560

[Fetzie]

A note of positivity: Kimi nearly got on the podium!

[Salamander]

Here's some crazy, wild speculation on my part, so feel free to just ignore if it sounds too stupid.

You know, thinking about it some more, I'm getting the impression that Hamilton has never really taken Rosberg as a serious threat to him. His actions and words seem more or less consistent with this mindset. I'm wondering if Rosberg got this same impression from Hamilton at some point or another, which could've led to him feeling he had to 'prove a point' - I highly doubt that Rosberg felt he had to prove a point to himself or the team about his title legitimacy.

[James1978]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115567

Do they honestly think they can deploy team orders? Seriously? Can see that going down like a ton of bricks!

[ADx_Wales]

If that happens then the championship is effectively over.

[AustralianStig]

If that happens then the championship is effectively over.

Don't despair, both drivers are VERY good at ignoring team orders!

[fbjim]

I'm going to say that the whole "Why do it on lap 2" thing is a bit overblown. I think Nico knows as well as anyone that sometimes, in a Grand Prix, you get one chance to pass someone in a car as fast as yours, and if you can't do it then, it's over.