The Sportscar and Endurance Thread

Post by **mario** » 14 Jun 2014, 18:08

An interesting article has cropped up on mulsannecorner.com, where the owner of that site has posted a very strong criticism of Toyota's rear wing - it is being suggested that Toyota's high top speeds might not be down to the power of their hybrid systems but instead on a deformable rear wing which, in the mind of the author of that site, is completely illegal. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2014.html

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 15 Jun 2014, 01:52

11 hours and 10 minutes remaining, watched the race from the start non-stop, even avoiding England's world cup game (won't hint at the result since I can't find any spoiler tags), feeling tired but seriously contemplating embracing the spirit of endurance and watching the remainder live and non-stop. Famous last words...

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 15 Jun 2014, 02:50

MorbidelliObese wrote:11 hours and 10 minutes remaining, watched the race from the start non-stop, even avoiding England's world cup game (won't hint at the result since I can't find any spoiler tags), feeling tired but seriously contemplating embracing the spirit of endurance and watching the remainder live and non-stop. Famous last words...

I predict Le Mans deprivation is going to kick hard on you.

Post by **Miguel98** » 15 Jun 2014, 09:18

2nd time in a couple of hours that the leading Audi pulls into the inside of the pitlane.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 15 Jun 2014, 09:22

This wrote:
MorbidelliObese wrote:11 hours and 10 minutes remaining, watched the race from the start non-stop, even avoiding England's world cup game (won't hint at the result since I can't find any spoiler tags), feeling tired but seriously contemplating embracing the spirit of endurance and watching the remainder live and non-stop. Famous last words...

I predict Le Mans deprivation is going to kick hard on you.

That's nothing.
I haven't slept since Le Mans 2011.

And for this year I have 4 screens going at once. One showing the footage from Eurosport's live coverage, one showing a constant onboard view of the #20 (they might take the lead very soon!),
one showing Steve McQueen's 'Le Mans' on repeat (this is the 12th showing since the start of the race yesterday), and my last screen is currently showing season 2 of Fresh Prince In Bel-Air.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 15 Jun 2014, 10:26

Three hours to go, and Porsche #20 has hit the lead.

Could this be ... ?????

Edit: looking unlikely though, given that the Audi is closing at 4s a lap and has recorded a best lap 3s faster than the Porsche.

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 15 Jun 2014, 13:17

MorbidelliObese wrote:As far as the winner goes a big part of me finds it hard to write off Audi even if Toyota are clear favourites, could be wrong but can't wait to find out either way.

(sort of) Called it. I haven't called anything (aside from when there's been a clear favourite) since Mika Hakkinen's 1998 championship a year in advance, so I'm milking this one. Congrats to Audi, Jota, Ferrari and the Danish Aston (especially after last year) on their wins.

First time I've managed the 24 hours non-stop without sleep, so should probably get some now, only 364 days to go!

This wrote:
MorbidelliObese wrote:11 hours and 10 minutes remaining, watched the race from the start non-stop, even avoiding England's world cup game (won't hint at the result since I can't find any spoiler tags), feeling tired but seriously contemplating embracing the spirit of endurance and watching the remainder live and non-stop. Famous last words...

I predict Le Mans deprivation is going to kick hard on you.

You were right.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 15 Jun 2014, 19:56

....*sigh* another winslol year for VW AG

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 19 Jun 2014, 20:40

24h at the Nurburgring Nordschleife this weekend. I'll be watching.
Nordschleife is a lot more exciting than La Sarthe in my opinion.
There will be 175 entrants, 31 of those GT3 cars.

Have a look at this incredible lap from last year,
in the rain and during the night;
Leh Keen's Rain Dance - 24 Hours Nürburgring - /DRIVER'S EYE
http://youtu.be/WAvN0EzEacU

Among the finest videos I've ever seen when it comes to speed, danger, surroundings, sound, conditions etc

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 20 Jun 2014, 15:42

ADAC Zurich 24h-race Top 30 Qualifying - Live

on right now

http://youtu.be/hkmrDxTgflY

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Jun 2014, 10:27

ADAC Zurich 24h-Race LIVE

http://youtu.be/pMIDFQxFKJw

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:31

Any "bets" on the Gran Turismo/Nismo brigade of #EatSleepRaceRepeat?

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 21 Jun 2014, 16:13

Jocke1 wrote:ADAC Zurich 24h-Race LIVE

http://youtu.be/pMIDFQxFKJw

God bless you Jocke! I was supposed to be racing today but got stuck at work. This will make it bearable. Thank you!

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Jun 2014, 17:37

Wallio wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:ADAC Zurich 24h-Race LIVE

http://youtu.be/pMIDFQxFKJw

God bless you Jocke! I was supposed to be racing today but got stuck at work. This will make it bearable. Thank you!

I'm watching as well. Wish I was there...

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Jun 2014, 18:12

Watch in HD!

3 different options to choose from, LIVE, GARAGE & ONBOARD
http://youtu.be/dBoZu0dWycw

I love this race, so much carnage and the race isn't even close to being halfway done yet.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 22 Jun 2014, 00:01

there is a drinking game going on in the comments. every retirement, have a swig

Post by **Londoner** » 26 Jul 2014, 19:51

There's been several huge accidents and a load of extremely bad driving at the Spa 24 Hours so far, but this latest accident, at Stavelot, is by far the worst. Race has been suspended under red flags, and one of the drivers has been airlifted to hospital.

The Dutch Bear · Post by **The Dutch Bear** » 26 Jul 2014, 19:57

This weekend is not just the weekend of the Hungarian Grand Prix, but also the weekend of the Spa 24 hours.
The race is under a red flag right now after a big crash involving the #111 Ferrari of Marcus Mahy and the #333 Ferrari of Vadim Kogay, the one featured in the rejectful YouTube thread because of his antics at Monza. It looks rather bad with the condition of Kogay being unknown and Mahy having been airlifted to hospital. I hope everything turns out okay, but I have a bad feeling about this.
Here is a live stream with RadioLeMans commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBkrdY9HGaU

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 26 Jul 2014, 22:58

Tim Mullen, one of the drivers who IIRC was involved in the Eau Rouge pileup has thankfully been released from hospital with no injurys.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 27 Jul 2014, 07:30

I need to be careful because I don't want to sound like I'm apportioning any blame or deriding the ability of any of the poor drivers who have suffered huge accidents in the Spa 24 hours. I hope they will all be OK, especially Marcus Mahy.

But I do wonder if this Spa 24 hrs will be the Imola 1994 for GT3 sportscar racing.

These GT3 cars are fast. The best examples will lap Bathurst faster than a race-bred V8 Supercar. The prestigious endurance races take place on some of the world's classic circuits - Bathurst, Nurburgring, Spa - which are classic tracks especially because of their speed and sense of old-fashioned danger. I don't profess to follow GT racing closely but I wonder about the extent to which safety on these racers are enhanced compared to the road-going versions.

There were already a couple of major accidents at Bathurst earlier this year. I have seen footage of some of these accidents at Spa and they are downright horrific. Whilst sometimes we bemoan how some forms of motorsport have become somewhat sanitised, I don't want to see cars breaking up the way they have at Spa.

I just wonder if the speed and comparative safety of the cars, the type of drivers these races attract (who, in some ways, are the ones who embody the spirit of racing that we most admire), and the circuits they race on, are something of a perilous cocktail.

Post by **mario** » 29 Jul 2014, 19:56

eytl wrote:I just wonder if the speed and comparative safety of the cars, the type of drivers these races attract (who, in some ways, are the ones who embody the spirit of racing that we most admire), and the circuits they race on, are something of a perilous cocktail.

There have been question marks over the safety of GT cars for a number of years ever since Gachnang broke her leg in a GT1 race at the Abu Dhabi circuit, and that is at a circuit which has comparatively modern and advanced safety measures in place.

Part of the issue does seem to be that a number of the cars are ultimately derived from production vehicles - even if they are substantially revised, the FIA's own regulations explicitly state that the chassis ultimately has to be built using the same materials and specifications as the donor vehicle.
With that in mind, most of the cars in the class are ultimately based on somewhat old GT cars - whilst Porsche has introduced their 991 derived GT cars, there are those that still used the 997 derived model that has elements dating back to 2006, whilst Aston Martin's VH platform, which underpins their Vantage model, dates back to circa 2004 (where it was first introduced on the DB9).

Furthermore, there do not seem to have been any real efforts to modify the cars themselves to make them safer, even following the harmonisation of the GTE and GT3 regulations by the FIA and ACO. Allan Simonsen's fatal accident in the 2013 24 Hours of Le Mans sparked a strong debate over the safety of the circuit, and it is true that the Circuit de la Sarthe has not kept up to date for several years, but what was notable is that nobody seems to have questioned whether the chassis of the car was inadequate. It's worth noting that, in that instance, the roll cage did ultimately fail, as did the roof (which was punched in by the accident), yet that aspect was not really commented upon and there seem to have been no modifications to the roll cage designs for some years now.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 29 Jul 2014, 20:27

I can remember the Mercedes cars had the problem that when lying upside down, their doors couldn't open. I'm not sure if they fixed that problem, but i think they don't. This is an example that not much thought is given about the safety.
But in my opinion, the biggest problem still lies within the questionable quality of some of the drivers. The downside is that having only top drivers is financially not do-able. And defenitely not for a 24h race with 50+ GT3 cars.
One thing with the GT3 concept is that speed differences are reduced a lot, but it also means cars are much closer on track. Both situations have their specific dangers.

Post by **mario** » 03 Aug 2014, 11:19

This wrote:I can remember the Mercedes cars had the problem that when lying upside down, their doors couldn't open. I'm not sure if they fixed that problem, but i think they don't. This is an example that not much thought is given about the safety.
But in my opinion, the biggest problem still lies within the questionable quality of some of the drivers. The downside is that having only top drivers is financially not do-able. And defenitely not for a 24h race with 50+ GT3 cars.
One thing with the GT3 concept is that speed differences are reduced a lot, but it also means cars are much closer on track. Both situations have their specific dangers.

I believe that the doors of the SLS were fitted with explosive bolts - the idea is that, if the car were to end up on its roof, the bolts would automatically break and therefore allow the medical teams to simply drag the door out of the way, providing free access. It is still, nevertheless, something of a convoluted work around, although at least the replacement for the SLS has conventional doors instead, which should eliminate that issue.

Driver quality is certain one issue - as you say, it is difficult given that it is not financially viable for the teams to all run professional drivers with high levels of experience, such that the amateur driver is inevitably required. The issue is clear enough that the ACO has developed a specific category - the GTE Am category - to help direct those semi professional drivers in a particular direction. The other thing that is an issue is that the ACO doesn't really seem to show much interest in pushing driver safety - they are keen to push the idea of efficiency and manufacturer prestige, but when did you last hear the ACO announce a new safety initiative? Mind you, the FIA has also been very inactive in that area (Hartstein has claimed that, pretty much since Todt took over the FIA, safety initiatives and medical research by the FIA has effectively ceased), and to a certain extent they deserve some of the blame too given that they are also responsible for multiple GT racing series and could help drive forward development.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Aug 2014, 17:58

mario wrote:I believe that the doors of the SLS were fitted with explosive bolts - the idea is that, if the car were to end up on its roof, the bolts would automatically break and therefore allow the medical teams to simply drag the door out of the way, providing free access. It is still, nevertheless, something of a convoluted work around, although at least the replacement for the SLS has conventional doors instead, which should eliminate that issue.

They were/are. As were the road cars. It was part of the rules the NHTSB has for rollover regs, and one reason why no "modern" car has ever had gullwings, you have to be able to open them. The road cars bolts were wired to a switch, which was sort of hidden. My part time second job is as a valet for a super rich country club. A guy pulled in in an SLS one night and I asked him "What's this button do?" His reaction was priceless.

Post by **mario** » 07 Aug 2014, 20:04

Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:I believe that the doors of the SLS were fitted with explosive bolts - the idea is that, if the car were to end up on its roof, the bolts would automatically break and therefore allow the medical teams to simply drag the door out of the way, providing free access. It is still, nevertheless, something of a convoluted work around, although at least the replacement for the SLS has conventional doors instead, which should eliminate that issue.

They were/are. As were the road cars. It was part of the rules the NHTSB has for rollover regs, and one reason why no "modern" car has ever had gullwings, you have to be able to open them. The road cars bolts were wired to a switch, which was sort of hidden. My part time second job is as a valet for a super rich country club. A guy pulled in in an SLS one night and I asked him "What's this button do?" His reaction was priceless.

I'll bet it was - it is one of those moments where you really, really wish that there was somebody filming what happened next...

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 16 Aug 2014, 23:09

Australia, you have 2 great endurance races happening at Bathrust again next year:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/08/1 ... trong.html

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Aug 2014, 16:39

The new Lotus LMP1 unveiled in Le Mans, now ready to race.

Post by **mario** » 26 Aug 2014, 17:11

go_Rubens wrote:

The new Lotus LMP1 unveiled in Le Mans, now ready to race.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't the Lotus LMP1 car (which has now apparently been renamed the P1/01) revealed over two months ago? Here's an article from the 12th June from that same launch event (you can just see Rebellion's car in the background if you look carefully). http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... -revealed/

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 26 Aug 2014, 17:56

mario wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:

The new Lotus LMP1 unveiled in Le Mans, now ready to race.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't the Lotus LMP1 car (which has now apparently been renamed the P1/01) revealed over two months ago? Here's an article from the 12th June from that same launch event (you can just see Rebellion's car in the background if you look carefully). http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... -revealed/

It was. It was supposed to race at Le Mans in fact, until they pulled out. Frankly I'll believe its ready when I see it run.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 26 Aug 2014, 17:57

Doesn't surprise me that they've ditched the T129 moniker. It was originally just a botched attempt by Fernandes to try and make his Lotus more like the real deal with the T125. The fact Group Lotus continued on with it, using it for that public F1-style single seater that Top Gear tested as well as this LMP1 project, always struck me as odd.

I'm just very happy that we'll have another LMP1 on the grid in Austin! We need moar prototypes!

Post by **mario** » 26 Aug 2014, 20:37

Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:

The new Lotus LMP1 unveiled in Le Mans, now ready to race.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't the Lotus LMP1 car (which has now apparently been renamed the P1/01) revealed over two months ago? Here's an article from the 12th June from that same launch event (you can just see Rebellion's car in the background if you look carefully). http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... -revealed/

It was. It was supposed to race at Le Mans in fact, until they pulled out. Frankly I'll believe its ready when I see it run.

I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one thinking that I had seen that before...

AndreaModa wrote:Doesn't surprise me that they've ditched the T129 moniker. It was originally just a botched attempt by Fernandes to try and make his Lotus more like the real deal with the T125. The fact Group Lotus continued on with it, using it for that public F1-style single seater that Top Gear tested as well as this LMP1 project, always struck me as odd.

I'm just very happy that we'll have another LMP1 on the grid in Austin! We need moar prototypes!

Whilst it would be nice to see, especially since it would finally give Rebellion a car in the same class it could compete against, we will have to wait and see if the car does actually make it onto the grid in Austin - as Wallio points out, the rechristened P1/01 project is already several months overdue given that the car was supposed to have raced at Le Mans.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 27 Aug 2014, 14:55

http://www.cotaexperiences.com/2014-tud ... ivers-2014

Are people paid to find the first picture they see on google image search?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

Austin, just stick with F1.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 27 Aug 2014, 15:55

I was reading about Thomas Enge last night and I found out the his team mate at Reiter in the FIA GT1 World Championship in 2012 was a German prince called Albert Maria Lamoral Miguel Johannes Gabriel Prince of Thurn and Taxis and it turns out he is a distant relative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 27 Aug 2014, 15:58

...and is also a triple word score

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Aug 2014, 18:02

roblomas52 wrote:I was reading about Thomas Enge last night and I found out the his team mate at Reiter in the FIA GT1 World Championship in 2012 was a German prince called Albert Maria Lamoral Miguel Johannes Gabriel Prince of Thurn and Taxis and it turns out he is a distant relative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II!

Yeah, I remember reading that around the time he was in F1, but it was something that I had forgotten.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Aug 2014, 18:14

roblomas52 wrote:I was reading about Thomas Enge last night and I found out the his team mate at Reiter in the FIA GT1 World Championship in 2012 was a German prince called Albert Maria Lamoral Miguel Johannes Gabriel Prince of Thurn and Taxis and it turns out he is a distant relative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II!

I remember reading that somewhere that I can't remember.

It also turns out I'm a distant relative to a different member of the royal family (I have to look back 13 generations to prove it, but it's true).

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Aug 2014, 20:44

go_Rubens wrote:It also turns out I'm a distant relative to a different member of the royal family (I have to look back 13 generations to prove it, but it's true).

I once read about 10 years ago that Prince William and George Bush Jnr were something like 17th cousins, or something ridiculous like that.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Aug 2014, 22:10

dr-baker wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:It also turns out I'm a distant relative to a different member of the royal family (I have to look back 13 generations to prove it, but it's true).

I once read about 10 years ago that Prince William and George Bush Jnr were something like 17th cousins, or something ridiculous like that.

If you go far enough, everyone in the world is nth cousins. After you get so far, it stops being something worth anything.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Aug 2014, 22:18

Salamander wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:It also turns out I'm a distant relative to a different member of the royal family (I have to look back 13 generations to prove it, but it's true).

I once read about 10 years ago that Prince William and George Bush Jnr were something like 17th cousins, or something ridiculous like that.

If you go far enough, everyone in the world is nth cousins. After you get so far, it stops being something worth anything.

That is true for me. I have to go back 13 generations to confirm that I'm a cousin of William. That's getting up there for wanting to bother looking up who my cousins might be. It doesn't feel significant to me, but it's just a nice little fact to know.

Post by **mario** » 28 Aug 2014, 20:54

Salamander wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:It also turns out I'm a distant relative to a different member of the royal family (I have to look back 13 generations to prove it, but it's true).

I once read about 10 years ago that Prince William and George Bush Jnr were something like 17th cousins, or something ridiculous like that.

If you go far enough, everyone in the world is nth cousins. After you get so far, it stops being something worth anything.

Exactly - if you go back far enough, you find that both Obama and Bush Jr. are distantly related, and that both of those men can claim to be distantly related to the current British royal family (they can both claim to be descended from Edward III). That same process also means that Boris Johnson and Johnny Dumfries - who, if not an F1 reject, perhaps qualifies as an honourary reject - are distantly related too, since both men can claim descent from George II.