2014 Canadian GP RoTR

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 09 Jun 2014, 01:58

Ferrari how is it even possible to get such an unnoticeable performance in a race like this? If it weren't for Kimi's spin, we might have forgotten that they were even there. At least Williams, Mercedes, Force India all looked like they were able to get a result at some point in the race, at least Mclaren managed to get a decent result in the last minutes.. At least Marussia failed completely. At least Sauber, Lotus and Caterham retired. At least Toro Rosso was expected to be unnoticeable. But come on Ferrari's performances should evoke some passion, even if they don't win. But this was boring. Not even Gilles Villeneuve could make this team look interesting at the moment.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 09 Jun 2014, 02:36

RoTR: Chilton

Hon'ble Mentions: Raikkonen, Williams strategists

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 09 Jun 2014, 04:47

go_Rubens wrote:TV Director - Wow, just wow, how shite do you have to be?!
Whining - It gets annoying enough that it becomes its own category

Does that mean you've just nominated yourself, Mr Rubens? :mrgreen:

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Jun 2014, 05:19

It just has to go to Max Chilton for me. I said before that if he ever retired, it would be spectacular, and he didn't disappoint. Once he started spinning, there was nothing he could do, and he certainly didn't mean to take Bianchi out, but he never should have spun in the first place, and Bianchi was an unfortunate victim. Also, blaming Jules for the accident was just childish.

Plus, he got me disqualified from the Spanish Predicament Predictions

I refuse to nominate either Pérez or Massa or even the stewards for what I see as a racing incident. Final lap. If Massa wants a podium, he has to pass both Pérez and Vettel, and he needs to pass Pérez as soon as he can. If he goes far to the inside, he'll run wide and be too far behind Vettel, so he goes towards the middle of the track. At the same time, Pérez leaves his defense far too late. Brakes or no brakes, mirrors are there for a reason. Massa should, with hindsight, have left a bigger gap and been a tad less optimistic, but Pérez shouldn't have let the car drift to the right of the track. I'm sorry, but he wasn't following the "usual racing line". Both drivers were at fault, but Pérez just that little bit more. The 5-place penalty is justified in my view, and shows that the FIA only consider that Pérez was more at fault and not that he was solely at fault. Else he'd have had a 10-place drop and points on his license.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 09 Jun 2014, 05:24

tommykl wrote:I refuse to nominate either Pérez or Massa or even the stewards for what I see as a racing incident. Final lap. If Massa wants a podium, he has to pass both Pérez and Vettel, and he needs to pass Pérez as soon as he can. If he goes far to the inside, he'll run wide and be too far behind Vettel, so he goes towards the middle of the track. At the same time, Pérez leaves his defense far too late. Brakes or no brakes, mirrors are there for a reason. Massa should, with hindsight, have left a bigger gap and been a tad less optimistic, but Pérez shouldn't have let the car drift to the right of the track. I'm sorry, but he wasn't following the "usual racing line". Both drivers were at fault, but Pérez just that little bit more. The 5-place penalty is justified in my view, and shows that the FIA only consider that Pérez was more at fault and not that he was solely at fault. Else he'd have had a 10-place drop and points on his license.

Very true. This what I have been thinking, I just have some difficulties translating it to English :oops:

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 09 Jun 2014, 05:39

fjackdaw wrote:I'm going to nominate the director, for showing cutaways of people watching the race while exciting things were happening on track.

Me too, and for lingering shots of Eduardo Massa.
Also, Chilton, I guess. Although he redeemed himself slightly in my eyes for being quite feisty about it afterwards.

Post by **mario** » 09 Jun 2014, 05:53

tzerof1 wrote:My nomination: the stewards because of Chilton's penalty.

To me it looked like the car got a bit loose going into turn 3 and with it being the first lap, contact with another car was inevitable and certainly not avoidable in that instance, seeing as how being sideways in a downhill chicane is difficult in itself to control. Add to the fact that the tyres are a bit cooler than operating temp and the car is full of fuel, and it's the 3/4 chicane at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, and it's not going to end well. It was either going to be the wall or another car, judging by the trajectory the car was headed on when it broke loose. The fact that it was his teammate is insult to injury. But a penalty, that's quite absurd in my view. It's getting to the point where it seems the "racing incident" is fast becoming a thing of the past, since everything is apparently believed to have an avoidable cause. Sometimes in motorsport, shite happens. And the stewards need to remember that. It's not like Chilton was being daft and went in too hot(ala Liuzzi @ Monza '11).

And because of the first Hamilton/Rosberg chicane cutting incident.

Honestly there was nothing to investigate. By the time they concluded their investigation Hamilton was closer than he had been when Rosberg gained .4 of a second cutting across the chicane anyway. Plus as astutely mentioned by(IIRC) Leigh Diffey, there had been a similar incident with Kyvat and Raikkonen a few laps earlier that the stewards didn't bat an eye at(not that anyone ever saw said incident due to the much aforementioned daftness of the world feed director.) Honestly, the thought of the impact that would have had on the race just doesn't sit well with me. A minimum roughly 20 seconds to penalise a gain of.4 seconds that had little effect on that particular battle in the end makes no sense, and the stewards ought not have even gone down that path of thought. Overall, more daftness in the Race Control room, something the sport really doesn't need.

Honourable mentions: The NBC commentary team: Other than the aformentioned astute observation, and a few other moments, most of their commentary(especially before Hamilton retired) seemed to consist of talking up the Hamilton/Rosberg phantom manufactured intra-team rivalry. Which in addition to the daftness of the world feed director did no help in keeping one informed of the racing going on elsewhere in the pack.

McLaren: You know you've fallen a long way when other than during the parade lap, nobody can be bothered(at least in the aforementioned broadcast/commentary parties) to mention or show that you're in the race. That's just sad.

In the case of Chilton and Bianchi, I agree that although Chilton did make a mistake in those circumstances, it does feel a bit harsh to penalise a driver there when he'd already taken the hit of knocking himself out of the race.

As for Rosberg cutting the chicane, in that instance I can understand why the stewards did look at that incident - in the case of Kimi and Kvyat, there the defending driver still set a slightly slower lap time than on the previous lap, so the advantage they gained was limited.
In the case of Rosberg, if you look at his lap times the advantage he gained was actually fairly sizeable - he set his fastest lap, and indeed the fastest lap of the race, by cutting the chicane in that instance, gaining at least 0.5s compared to his previous lap. I guess that it wasn't just that he gained a chunk of lap time from that incident, but because it was also so transparent that he gained by cutting the track - which is technically an offence - that compelled the stewards to act.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 09 Jun 2014, 06:30

I'm going to put a 2nd nomination (after the TV Director) to Kimi Raikkonen. I only noticed in the paper this morning that not only was he ONLY 10th in such a race of attrition, but he was a whopping 24 seconds behind Magnussen in 9th. Seriously?

Ferrari, why did you not sign the Hulk??

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 09 Jun 2014, 09:00

Another HM is for both ludicrous penalties, Perez/Massa incident was probably avoidable but they both did something wrong, Perez was ahead and did not weave enough for justifying a penalty. Chiltons penalty is even worse... he makes a little mistake and he has taken his teammate out already. Isn't that enough of a penalty?

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 09 Jun 2014, 09:05

Hard to decide who mostly was at fault, so I'll go for Massa and Perez.

Dishonorable Mention goes to The Talent for ending his epic streak of finishes in Canada, of all places!

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 09 Jun 2014, 09:40

Has to be the TV director for this one, cut away from all sorts of stuff

Dishonourable mention to Ben Edwards and Coulthard who took fifteen laps after a mate and I to realise that both Perez and Massa were in contention for podium/victory

Post by **Londoner** » 09 Jun 2014, 09:43

Kobacrashi wrote:Nominating people nominating Massa.

He drove a good race and was unlucky to be stuck so far back due to a 7 second pit stop.

If you watch the replays of the accident Perez clearly moves across about a quarter of a cars width which combined with his early breaking caused the crash Massa was just wrong place wrong time. He could maybe have got vettel for the podium.

And I'm also gonna be nominating people who are nominating people who nominated Massa, because I can, and because sod Massa.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Jun 2014, 10:18

At the time when I first saw the crash, I thought Perez was more at fault if it were not a racing accident. I don't get all this strong opinion towards it being Massa's fault at all. Maybe being a long-term Williams fan has clouded my judgement, but at no point did I ever think it was the Brazilian's fault.

Williams's strategies again disappoint me and deserve Reject recognition.

Plus Chilton, sadly. And the TV directors for totally missing Button's progress in the last few laps.

Belegur · Post by **Belegur** » 09 Jun 2014, 10:32

One thing about the bad TV direction is that this has been a problem for the last 15+ years. Back in the ITV days in the late 90s, Martin Brundle was upbraiding the race direction for cutting to shots of people in the paddock, rather than focusing on the race. Noticeably, he doesn't do that any more. I imagine he's resigned to it now.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 09 Jun 2014, 10:39

Max Chilton: Ended his finishing streak with a very clumsy move, took off his teammate in the process, ended up demolishing Bianchi's car and heavily damaging his own - repair bills galore - and had the temerity to blame his teammate in the process. Dismal showing after the feel-good result for Marussia in Monaco.

Felipe Massa: I understand him trying to get the best result possible, but that was clumsy, could have ended up very dangerously and could even have taken Vettel off in the process; as it was, there will be big repair bills for both Williams and Force India and they lost the points that they could have got from the fifth place.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 09 Jun 2014, 10:52

Massa- So what if he's likeable. The guy can't cut it. Time and time again he throws points away, ruins other people's races. He should've won. I can't tell you what a second rate (ie- not in the top 10 drivers in F1) racer Massa is, that was pathetic, he couldn't take Vettel, he couldn't even take Perez. The last people to run over people's rear tyres when they weren't even changing direction were Bruno Senna and an elderly Michael Schumacher.

Williams: I also think the decision to pit him from FIRST POSITION, with the wounded Rosberg acting as the protector behind was unbelievably foolish. Massa would've coasted to victory.

Out of all that they've blown their best chance for a podium and a victory and underlined that they are a ring rusty small-time team who don't cut it when it comes to operating near the top. So annoyed with them this weekend.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 09 Jun 2014, 10:56

jackanderton wrote:Massa- The guy can't cut it. He should've won.

No offense but your post is slightly contradictory, you're suggesting Massa is pants but more than capable of winning the race?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Jun 2014, 11:08

CoopsII wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Massa- The guy can't cut it. He should've won.

No offense but your post is slightly contradictory, you're suggesting Massa is pants but more than capable of winning the race?

Well, his position was such that he could've won the race, but screwed up exiting the hairpin every time and wound up passing nobody at all and crashing. Had a more capable driver been in Massa's shoes, they would've very likely taken full advantage of that position and won.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 09 Jun 2014, 11:08

CoopsII wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Massa- The guy can't cut it. He should've won.

No offense but your post is slightly contradictory, you're suggesting Massa is pants but more than capable of winning the race?

Not really, since Massa's win would've been NOT thanks to his own efforts, but because others had misfortunes out the wazoo. And I agree with him.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 09 Jun 2014, 11:50

Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Massa- The guy can't cut it. He should've won.

No offense but your post is slightly contradictory, you're suggesting Massa is pants but more than capable of winning the race?

Well, his position was such that he could've won the race, but screwed up exiting the hairpin every time and wound up passing nobody at all and crashing. Had a more capable driver been in Massa's shoes, they would've very likely taken full advantage of that position and won.

I dont know about winning the actual race but I see where everyones coming from.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 09 Jun 2014, 16:09

With 14 cars being classified at the finish there will always be a lot of ROTR candidates!

First, Caterham stuck out for their obvious lack of pace and their reliability, but I can see them winning ROTY in the future. Ericsson is also considered for having no pace of his own and crashing at turn 9 (I have photos, I'll post them once I get to a reliable wifi). The Merc W05 also needs consideration given their sudden dropouts, though I was kinda expecting that, since the team said that Montreal was expected to be a challenge.

But ultimately, the most obvious candidate is my pick - Max Chilton, the golden boy, who managed to take himself and Bianchi out of the race, ending his consecutive finishes run. Sorry Max. Taking out a teammate is never a good thing.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 09 Jun 2014, 17:01

Didn't see the Chilton incident, so I can't judge. Instead, I'll nominate Felolpe Massa

Quite simply, on quali pace the Williams was the fastest of the bunch of those 5 cars towards the end of the race, his tyres were multiple laps younger than everyone else's and he had a whopping speed advantage on the one part of track where you don't need a miracle to overtake. 7 laps to pass to pass 4 cars and win, no bother. Not for Felolpe, who glued himself to the back of Vettel's car, even on the straights, and then speared Perez in a highly amateur move. Instead of 25 points in a race he could've won, he got a big fat 0. Plonker.

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 09 Jun 2014, 17:08

Max "He Braked Later Than Me, Fire Him!" Chilton - zero admittance to own guilt which I find notoriously annoying. Blaming Bianchi for braking too late? Jeez, that's even more ridiculous than the crash itself. After all it was Chilton who speared into Bianchi. The worst possible way to end the running streak, by crashing out your own teammate.

Massa didn't get ROTR for some of his "masterful" drives at the start of 2013 and it was Perez who switched lanes and got the boot so I don't see him getting this one at all.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 09 Jun 2014, 17:16

A note about Williams - they should thank their lucky stats that we're not still on pre-2003 points - otherwise they'd be stuck on a measly 4 points (3 if Ricciardo hadn't been disqualified in Australia)they have has lots of 7ths and 8ths which would have been otherwise unrewarded back then, at least this way they do have a decent points total.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 09 Jun 2014, 20:44

Belegur wrote:One thing about the bad TV direction is that this has been a problem for the last 15+ years. Back in the ITV days in the late 90s, Martin Brundle was upbraiding the race direction for cutting to shots of people in the paddock, rather than focusing on the race. Noticeably, he doesn't do that any more. I imagine he's resigned to it now.

It is generally better than it used to be before we had a standardised FOM feed. Back when we received the local TV feed, it was often almost unwatchably biased or unimaginative. Directors who didn't simply watch the local hero/team for the entire race would usually just show the leader circling endlessly. There were some hugely frustrating telly-watching experiences. I do remember a French GP where we pretty much only saw the two Renault cars.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 09 Jun 2014, 21:19

Blimey, this is difficult. I'm certainly disappointed in Massa, not for the crash, more because of the fact that he took too much time to try and get past people when he had the chance, which is partly why he had to go for it at the end. Not enough to be rejectful though, especially as I had great fun cheering him on.

Likewise, I can't give it to Perez as although he probably was to blame for that crash, it wasn't malicious. Max is a bigger contender, because that was spectacularly dopey.

However, I also have to give it to the TV coverage. This year's coverage has been very hit and miss, but this was a new low. Seemingly every time something was going on at the chicane, we got a BLOODY CRASH ZOOM INTO THE FANS! There were many other weird cutaways when something was clearly about to happen too.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 09 Jun 2014, 22:02

I'm going to nominate another driver for ROTR - Kimi Raikkonen. That race was just awful. Would have been 12th had it not been for the crash at the last lap. Plus he was the only driver that day who was sitting in the car during the drivers parade. And he was completely nowhere the whole race. I never noticed him. He's also a good candidate for ROTY, if he keeps struggling.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 10 Jun 2014, 01:35

Chilton, takes out teammate and DNFs himself. Not to mention he's still inferior to Bianchi.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 10 Jun 2014, 01:44

RealRacingRoots wrote:
AxelP800 wrote:MAX CHILTON
Anyone who nominates Massa. Now I see it as racing incident. Perez switch lanes, Massa got caught and wham

Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

Remember, Chilton has such low DNF rates that the last thing you expect him to do is crash. The only difference is that Massa was a potential podium car and Chilton at best with the attrition would have been 10th.

LeytonHouse · Post by **LeytonHouse** » 10 Jun 2014, 09:28

This is quite an easy one for me...

Max Chilton – Took out his team-mate (big no no!), didn’t take responsibility, in fact blamed Bianchi for "braking later" than him and potentially cost Marussia points in a high attrition race.

The thing that I cant understand is Max not being able to comprehend how someone on the racing line could brake later than him and still make the corner. Chilton was on the dirty side of the track, on the inside line and therefore had less angle to work with, little wonder he lost the rear. Bianchi gave him room but it was clear Chilton was out of control on entry.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 10 Jun 2014, 11:33

RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well :lol:

Williams fans - forever the optimists

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Jun 2014, 11:41

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well Williams fans - forever the optimists

Well... he was doing well. Until he screwed it all up.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 10 Jun 2014, 11:46

Salamander wrote:
RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well Williams fans - forever the optimists

Well... he was doing well. Until he screwed it all up.

Yeah he was. For the first time for like a year. It wasn't that predictable

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Jun 2014, 11:56

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well Williams fans - forever the optimists

Yep, that does pretty much sum me up. :lol:

Stormwind · Post by **Stormwind** » 10 Jun 2014, 13:51

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well Williams fans - forever the optimists

Yes... Yes we are. It's the only thing we have going for us at the moment. Unfortunately I knew hiring Massa was a step backwards, I howled in despair when I found out.

Post by **tommykl** » 10 Jun 2014, 13:54

Stormwind wrote:
RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:Too bad expectations play a big role in ROTR. We expect Massa to do well and he bins it like a moron at the end and actually forgets how to pass at the end. The expectations for Chilton are much, much lower and almost non existent. Grow up.

You expect Massa to do well Williams fans - forever the optimists

Yes... Yes are. It's the only thing we have going for us at the moment. Unfortunately I knew hiring Massa was a step backwards, I howled in despair when I found out.

Well, it's a step up from Susie Wolff...

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 10 Jun 2014, 15:49

Good God, how can anyone pick anyone but Chilton? He ended his own streak, took off his teammate (THE cardinal sin of racing), cost Marussia an easy 7-figure repair bill, and then blamed poor Jules and basically said "But I'm TALENT bitches!"

However, you are all missing one thing, with all the usual Canada retirements, and their post-Monte Carlo momentum, Max cost the team more Points! That alone is ROTR material.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 10 Jun 2014, 16:52

1. Chilton: Ends his finishing streak on his own hands.

2. TV Director: Many incidents that could have been seen rather than the crowd.

sw3ishida · Post by **sw3ishida** » 10 Jun 2014, 19:13

It would be easy to blame Felipe Massa for ruining my fun in cheering on Checo. However, that'd just be asking for trouble, so I'll go for the next most obvious answer. Max Chilton who not only ruined his finishing record on his own, but took out his teammate and most importantly, ruined my fun in cheering on Jules and Marussia. Sauber's anonymity is now too easy to criticise and much the same with Raikkonen. They're fighting their own battle to claim ROTY it seems.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 10 Jun 2014, 22:09

Chilton, definitely Chilton.

If he hadn't have done that disaster I would have said Caterham. 1 second off Marussia in qualifying, I forgot that they'd taken part when the end result came on the screen because they'd both retired early. What a bloody disaster.

But Chilton I'd say outdoes his rivals once again. Stupid mistake and then the blame on his team-mate. Absolutely no sympathy for Max. You can't just smash your team-mate off - bear in mind a team-mate who has been incredibly impressive and is gaining popularity quickly since Monaco - and then blame him on television for it. No decency whatsoever. That's like Nelson Piquet Jr. bad in terms of blame-throwing.