2012 Malaysia Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Mar 2012, 15:29

Out of those two options, I'd say it'd be better for him to sign a 2013 contract than joining Ferrari mid-season, particularly in a car that's difficult to handle. It would help him to get some extra experience with Sauber, and then have a proper pre-season with Ferrari.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 25 Mar 2012, 15:29

IceG wrote:So when Perez gets the call from Ferrari, should he go to a team with a crap car and a number one driver already in place and play second fiddle a la Barrichello and Massa? Or should he stay where he is and potentially beat Alonso in a Sauber? Now there is a conundrum.

Unless of course they offer him a multi-year contract, then it's a no brainer. Ferrari have more resources and finance than Sauber, so are more likely to be able to develop their car better over the course of the season, and have a better chance of building a better car in 2013.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Mar 2012, 15:40

How many similarites are there with Perez today and Fisichella at Spa 2009?

Both were deemed Ferrari replacements having just been beaten by the lead Ferrari driver they were touted to join, and both ended up getting the best-ever results for their respective teams!!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 25 Mar 2012, 15:49

What. A. Race.

I'm so, so gutted for Perez. I could cry, honestly. What a fantastic drive. Ok, he put the wet's on before everyone else, but his overall pace was simply outstanding. And when you see the likes of Massa fighting for 15th place, you have to wonder just how long Massa has at Ferrari. His time with them could be measured in days, not weeks.

Alonso meanwhile, has proven once again just what an amazing driver he is. I'm not his biggest fan, and so badly wanted him to spank it at the end, but you have to admit, talking that sh!tbox of a car to a race win this soon is something else.

Hamilton doesn't deserve any slack for taking (a quiet) 3rd. He kept it on the black stuff throughout and never put a foot wrong.

Raikkonen drove well to 5th. Looks like he's never been away.

Great drive from Senna. From nowhere in 14th at mid-race, passing anything ahead of him, took a brilliant 6th. Hopefully, the boo-boys on here relax on him a bit.

Vergne scores points in only his 2nd race so well done to him. The Toro Rosso doesn't look like a bad car so I'm expecting more top-10 places from him. But well done for keeping it pointing in the right direction.

Double-point finish for Force India is a good sign. Both drivers has wet-weather experience anyway so was expecting a decent showing from Di Reata and Hulkenberg.

Schumacher was very lucky to score a couple of points, however I think he wouldve been ahead of Raikkonen hadn't he been hit by Grosjean at the start.

As for Vettel, Button and Massa, they're all at fault for their own poor showing. It was Vettel's fault he cut across the HRT, it was Button's fault for diving up the inside of the HRT and breaking his wing and Massa is just poor overall.

Double finishes too for all three backmarkers will give them some much needed data, so that'll help them.

Overall, brilliant race. Perez really is a fantastic driver, slowly becoming a favourite

Post by **tommykl** » 25 Mar 2012, 16:01

This is not only Sauber's best ever result in its prrivate form, but also its first podium since 2003. It was about time, I'd say.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Mar 2012, 16:31

GwilymJJames wrote:Shock news! FIA favour big team in 50-50 incident.

I disagree, Karthikeyan had just made a mistake and was already a lap down, he had nothing to lose by just backing off, even slightly. Grosjean got stick for being in a similar position in Australia, I don't see why Karthikeyan should get any different.

As for Perez, there are no words to describe how awesome his drive was. He's not only got Ferrari's attention, he's got the attention of every team boss in the paddock. Super, super drive. It almost makes me feel sorry for Senna; I don't really like him that much but he did a fine job to finish 6th and bag some important points for Williams, as Maldonado again retired from a points position. I didn't rate either of the Williams drivers prior to Melbourne, but I have to say they are winning me over. Alonso, well, all I can say is he deserved that win, even with Perez's drive. He was lucky, but drove well regardless, and showed again the mettle that won him back-to-back World Championships.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 25 Mar 2012, 16:32

This was another "strange" race from the point of view of the final result, yet from the race and especially form qualifying we can get a pretty clear picture of the relative performance of the teams.
McLaren were aggain robbed of a 1-2 finish. As a historical note, the last time the McLarens started two consecutive races from the front row was in 2000, and those races were an allmost total disaster. This time it was relatively better. Allso, McLaren were a bit lucky today because while they lost points, they lost them to less dangerous rivals. both championships are still theirs to loose, especially the WCC where they are leading now. As for the WDC, In spite of the win I still can't take Alonso seriously as a contender for this year. Red Bull had an even worse week-end then McLaren and it looks like they really aren't the car to beat any more, even if they are still very competitive. I still don't know where Mercedes and Lotus stand, but Kimi seems to be doing well after his comeback
In the midfield the hierarchy is allso clearer. It's obvoius allready from qualifying that there is a clear split with Williams and Sauber being faster that Torro Rosso and Force India. The last two were very lucky to gain points today but I don't expect this to happen more often. They were very luck today (but their direct rivals were even luckier).
Speaking of Sauber, a good question is: how good are they really. Sergio's performance today looks to be more than just a fluke, and the car could be genuinely fast. I'm really curious what Kobayashi can do with the car on a good day, and wether the team will score more podiums and even a win.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 Mar 2012, 16:32

tommykl wrote:This is not only Sauber's best ever result in its prrivate form, but also its first podium since 2003. It was about time, I'd say.

I think Peter Sauber is a real racing man, a gentleman who gives everything for its team. You could see that when we picked up the team from the shambles after BMW departed, the way he select those drivers, which although with reasonable back up, are still better than what Williams has managed to do. Despite being backed by Ferrari he doesn't have that many resources to work and still they battle valiantly with the rest of the midfield. I say that not many people on the paddock are as deserving of this result as Peter Sauber. My hats off to him!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Mar 2012, 17:11

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Schumi will make such a demon start that he and Hamilton will take each other off at the first corner, starting a season-long feud, that will open the door for Jenson to win.

OR, much more likely, Schumacher starts out strongly but as his tyres wear down - and the W03 seems to get through its tyres as rapidly as the W02 - his pace is likely to fade away and he is forced into a premature pitstop. The question, though, is how much of an impact Schumacher will have had on the race by that point - McLaren will probably hope that their drivers manage to hold Schumacher off at the start and that they can be out of DRS range, leaving Schumacher to fight with the Red Bull drivers.

OK, we were both wrong, although I did predict that Schumi would clash with someone on the first lap. Australia should have given me the clue it would have been Fat John...

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 25 Mar 2012, 17:26

Why did it take so long for drivers to move on to slicks? even with the threat of rain pending, Ricciardo (the first man on slicks) was going 4 seconds a lap quicker then the next fastest guy on his first lap! In only 4-5 laps they would have already made up the time it would take to swap back to FRESH inters if it had rained again.

I can understand why Alonso and Perez might be a bit hesitant, but what did drivers like Button and Massa have to lose by gambling on slicks?

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 25 Mar 2012, 17:51

That was bloody fantastic! I woke up late (daylight saving time always throws me off), so I was lucky that the race start was delayed by an hour, I caught most of it.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 25 Mar 2012, 19:22

Great race. I suspect that Massa's performance is more indicative of the Ferrari package than Alonso's, just an incredible drive.

Its also interesting to compare Jenson's honest admissionthat he cocked up and his relaxed admission that it was an awful race to Lewis's tantrum last week. One of these drivers has the mental strength to fight for the championship.

Post by **mario** » 25 Mar 2012, 20:44

dr-baker wrote:
mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Schumi will make such a demon start that he and Hamilton will take each other off at the first corner, starting a season-long feud, that will open the door for Jenson to win.

OR, much more likely, Schumacher starts out strongly but as his tyres wear down - and the W03 seems to get through its tyres as rapidly as the W02 - his pace is likely to fade away and he is forced into a premature pitstop. The question, though, is how much of an impact Schumacher will have had on the race by that point - McLaren will probably hope that their drivers manage to hold Schumacher off at the start and that they can be out of DRS range, leaving Schumacher to fight with the Red Bull drivers.

OK, we were both wrong, although I did predict that Schumi would clash with someone on the first lap. Australia should have given me the clue it would have been Fat John...

To be fair I guess we'd both expected the start of the race to be dry - if it had, perhaps we'd have seen something closer to what either one of us predicted.

Ross Prawn wrote:Great race. I suspect that Massa's performance is more indicative of the Ferrari package than Alonso's, just an incredible drive.

Its also interesting to compare Jenson's honest admissionthat he cocked up and his relaxed admission that it was an awful race to Lewis's tantrum last week. One of these drivers has the mental strength to fight for the championship.

Speaking of Hamilton and Button, did anybody find it interesting that Button appeared to be given the first choice for tyres during that race even though Hamilton had track position? Normally McLaren give the leading driver first choice on tyre and strategy decisions, but interesting it was Button who was switched from intermediates to full wets first, and similarly Button switched from wet to dry tyres first (a decision which left Hamilton on track with worn inters at a time when slicks were four or five second a lap faster).

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 25 Mar 2012, 21:07

WHAT JUST HAPPENED???

S951 · Post by **S951** » 25 Mar 2012, 21:16

such an awesome race gutted kamui had problems hope he gets some good like this to checo did very well was shouting at tv for him to win

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 25 Mar 2012, 21:18

S951 wrote:such an awesome race gutted kamui had problems hope he gets some good like this to checo did very well was shouting at tv for him to win

Please try to be coherent and properly use punctuation signs and caps, thank you very much.

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 25 Mar 2012, 21:24

In recognition of the best showing by a Mexican in F1 for bathplug knows how long, I'll just leave this here.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Mar 2012, 22:19

mario wrote:To be fair I guess we'd both expected the start of the race to be dry - if it had, perhaps we'd have seen something closer to what either one of us predicted.

True...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Mar 2012, 22:22

Phoenix wrote:
S951 wrote:such an awesome race gutted kamui had problems hope he gets some good like this to checo did very well was shouting at tv for him to win

Please try to be coherent and properly use punctuation signs and caps, thank you very much.

This. It just makes life easier, and people will understand you more clearly without misunderstanding you.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 26 Mar 2012, 02:50

I don't believe it's been mentioned yet, but spare a thought for 'anonymous' Webber, who followed Alonso into the pits after the restart and came out with five cars between them. And as a result, several more were able to leapfrog him the following lap despite pitting later, most obviously his teammate.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 26 Mar 2012, 06:03

J Washburn Stoker wrote:I don't believe it's been mentioned yet, but spare a thought for 'anonymous' Webber, who followed Alonso into the pits after the restart and came out with five cars between them. And as a result, several more were able to leapfrog him the following lap despite pitting later, most obviously his teammate.

Alonso's pit stop was either a masterpiece of strategic planning or really, really lucky. He came in behind Hamilton and immediately in front of Webber and came out in front of Hamilton and way in front of Webber. One slick pit stop and a good release amidst the chaos tyre changes was all it took to vault him into the lead.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Mar 2012, 06:06

Dom wrote:
J Washburn Stoker wrote:I don't believe it's been mentioned yet, but spare a thought for 'anonymous' Webber, who followed Alonso into the pits after the restart and came out with five cars between them. And as a result, several more were able to leapfrog him the following lap despite pitting later, most obviously his teammate.

Alonso's pit stop was either a masterpiece of strategic planning or really, really lucky. He came in behind Hamilton and immediately in front of Webber and came out in front of Hamilton and way in front of Webber. One slick pit stop and a good release amidst the chaos tyre changes was all it took to vault him into the lead.

In Hamilton's defense, and to McLaren's discredit, they had a hard time getting the rear jack up which meant by the time the stop was finish, Hamilton got trapped by virtually the entire midfield. Not sure what happened to Webber though, which is odd considering last year Red Bull were the masters of the pitstop.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:03

Wizzie wrote:Alonso's pit stop was either a masterpiece of strategic planning or really, really lucky. He came in behind Hamilton and immediately in front of Webber and came out in front of Hamilton and way in front of Webber. One slick pit stop and a good release amidst the chaos tyre changes was all it took to vault him into the lead.

I'd say he (Webber) was held up waiting for a safe release with all the cars streaming into the pits. Shame really, since it meant losing out both to cars who stopped earlier (eg Raikkonen) and later (eg Vettel). Alonso's position may have been pure luck, but one thing he did do was a masterful rolling restart which put him straight past Webber and into the box seat for an inteference-free pitstop.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:09

J Washburn Stoker wrote:I'd say he (Webber) was held up waiting for a safe release with all the cars streaming into the pits. Shame really, since it meant losing out both to cars who stopped earlier (eg Raikkonen) and later (eg Vettel). Alonso's position may have been pure luck, but one thing he did do was a masterful rolling restart which put him straight past Webber and into the box seat for an inteference-free pitstop.

The only reason Alonso got such a good restart was because Hamilton was being the world's biggest muppet up front. I'm actually amazed nobody got into trouble for it :lol:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:36

I'm just surprised no-one speared into the car ahead. There was still quite a bit of spray and was expecting another Button-2000 again.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:38

AdrianSutil wrote:I'm just surprised no-one speared into the car ahead. There was still quite a bit of spray and was expecting another Button-2000 again.

They were all three and four wide heading into the final corner which makes it a minor miracle there wasn't the mother and father of all big accidents at the end of it

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:48

Yeah, inexplicable how he didn't actually win that race. First Sauber delay changing his tyres which may have even cost him a pass over Alonso in the pits, then his race engineer starts saying "We need the points, hold track position" or something similar over the radio to him, and then he makes an error that costs him just about enough time not to catch Alonso's floundering Ferrari, but hold on to 2nd position.

All while Sauber are the willing nice-guy Ferrari engine customers.

All enough to make a few conspiracists wonder what the... that was all about.

I'm serious, Perez could've won that race by 20 seconds.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:51

jackanderton wrote:I'm serious, Perez could've won that race by 20 seconds.

I see no conspiracy. Theres no guarantee Perez would've got past Alonso and with less experiance than the Ferrari man he wouldve been wise to not bother.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 26 Mar 2012, 07:54

I'm not suggesting it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying there's a lot of coincidences if it wasn't.

Anyway, my point stands, Perez was lapping 1.5s a lap quicker and would've breezed past Alonso on the straight, or had 5 laps after that to complete the pass. Alonso wouldn't have done anything stupid either, he knew 2nd place was a good result and that he was lucky to win.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 26 Mar 2012, 08:13

jackanderton wrote:I'm not suggesting it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying there's a lot of coincidences if it wasn't.

It kinda sounds like you are - the 'coincidences' aren't particularly noteworthy unless you're forcibly trying join the dots.

To put it another way, there is only one coincidence: Perez's engineer says "don't screw up, remember we need the points" and then Perez screws up. Sounds like the engineer was right about Perez driving too aggressively, if you ask me.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 26 Mar 2012, 08:46

Also Sauber was poop in straight line speed. Alonso was regularly faster in S3 where the overtaking is most likely to happen So even if Checo would've overtaken Alonso it would've probably happened somewhere else on the track where it's more risky and harder to overtake.

And this is coming from a Ferrari hater.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 26 Mar 2012, 09:02

For the record, the exact radio message was:

"Checo be careful. We need this position. We need this position. Possible light rain corner 1-2-3. Possible light rain, 1-2-3. We stay out in any case."

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 26 Mar 2012, 09:11

Alonso would never have risked a collision with Perez either as he himself might not be in that position often this season. Perez was 1.5s faster per lap than Alonso, was 6 tenths behind him after reducing a 7 second deficit to Alonso in 6 laps. Without the mistake Perez would've been past and Sauber would be tasting real glory instead of the glory of the faster loser.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Mar 2012, 09:45

Who the bathplug do Red Bull think they are?! Just because you've won titles doesn't mean you can talk trash about the backmarkers!!

Been watching the post-race interviews on BBC red button, and poor old Karthikeyen turned around to DC and Jake Humphrey saying "What can I do? I try to get out of the way but when other drivers try to force you off the road it's not acceptable. I'm trying to drive my own race. I don't want to get in the way of the faster guys but I'm here doing my own job."

Fair play to him, an honest and very polite answer.

But then Christian Horner comes along a few minutes later and slags him off for taking Vettel out of contention. He says, "It looks like he pulled back onto the racing line too early and caused an avoidable accident. He's running around 7 seconds off the pace so he should be getting out of the way early enough. He hasn't got a chance of points but we have. He has to understand that."

now I'm sorry Mr Horner, but you have NO RIGHT to say that about a team struggling to qualify, let alone be competitive. HRT are trying their best to race against anyone ahead of them, so you can't expect them to just drive off the road so your precious double Champion can SCRAPE a 4th!!

My estimation of Vettel and especially Horner has dropped massively. Those comments, which hopefully other people have heard, is downright disrespectful. Just proves ego is high within Red Bull

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 26 Mar 2012, 10:21

Bathplug those red-flagger idiots, because of them the recording didn't have the whole race. :evil:

Luckily, the las laps I was able to watch again, but I still missed a couple of laps, including how Perez suddenly dropped back from Alonso's tail.

Anyway, apart from that, it was an awesome race, but I so wanted Perez to win.

Still, this second is the best result for the team (not counting the BMW-years, of course) Alonso leading the WDC with this Ferrari :shock:

Respect for Räikkönen, wet racing was never his strongest area, he did well.
I also have to mention Bruno Senna, what a great drive for him - for the first time in F1. If there's more to follow, I might reconsider my opinion about him.

I feel really sorry Maldonado on th other hand, engine failure??? :shock:

When did we see that last time before yesterday?

But thanks to that and Vettel's puncture, Mercedes is at least on the table. :lol:

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 26 Mar 2012, 10:26

Conspiracy you say? There's a thing you haven't notice then.
It's not Sergio who's gonna replace Felipe.
It's...
...Narain Karthikeyan.

Yes, I mean Narain. Just put a little effort and see the links. You did not actually expect him to have another season for HRT did you? But he's here, and all that for a very cleverly planned maneuvre. You say Button was a threat to Alonso until he was humiliated by the Fastest Indian. You can also say the very same about Sebastian. Why? Because it was planned that Ferrari win the race using Narain's ideal moving chicane help. They did everything to hide this fact from you. For us it just looks like Narain is a very difficult guy to lap. Remember him being hard on Felipe that time (Canada 2011 if I remember well)? It was the first sign of the upgoing replacement. What did Narain say? "This coming from a guy who's seat is under threat."
Yup. Under his, Narain's threat. That was all to make Massa even less self-confident. See?
Why didn't Narain do the same to Hamilton? Well, for two reasons. First, three-time strike would probably start to look suspicious. Second, Hamilton was controlled by Perez. Yes, Sergio is just a part of this Narain-Massa exchange plan. He did his best, though. He also overshadows things done by Narain so that no one notices the truth.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Mar 2012, 10:29

solarcold wrote:Conspiracy you say? There's a thing you haven't notice then.
It's not Sergio who's gonna replace Felipe.
It's...
...Narain Karthikeyan.

Yes, I mean Narain. Just put a little effort and see the links. You did not actually expect him to have another season for HRT did you? But he's here, and all that for a very cleverly planned maneuvre. You say Button was a threat to Alonso until he was humiliated by the Fastest Indian. You can also say the very same about Sebastian. Why? Because it was planned that Ferrari win the race using Narain's ideal moving chicane help. They did everything to hide this fact from you. For us it just looks like Narain is a very difficult guy to lap. Remember him being hard on Felipe that time (Canada 2011 if I remember well)? It was the first sign of the upgoing replacement. What did Narain say? "This coming from a guy who's seat is under threat."
Yup. Under his, Narain's threat. That was all to make Massa even less self-confident. See?
Why didn't Narain do the same to Hamilton? Well, for two reasons. First, three-time strike would probably start to look suspicious. Second, Hamilton was controlled by Perez. Yes, Sergio is just a part of this Narain-Massa exchange plan. He did his best, though. He also overshadows things done by Narain so that no one notices the truth.

I'm not just standing up to that, I'm jumping up and down :lol:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Mar 2012, 10:31

AdrianSutil wrote:Who the bathplug do Red Bull think they are?! Just because you've won titles doesn't mean you can talk trash about the backmarkers!!

Been watching the post-race interviews on BBC red button, and poor old Karthikeyen turned around to DC and Jake Humphrey saying "What can I do? I try to get out of the way but when other drivers try to force you off the road it's not acceptable. I'm trying to drive my own race. I don't want to get in the way of the faster guys but I'm here doing my own job."

Fair play to him, an honest and very polite answer.

But then Christian Horner comes along a few minutes later and slags him off for taking Vettel out of contention. He says, "It looks like he pulled back onto the racing line too early and caused an avoidable accident. He's running around 7 seconds off the pace so he should be getting out of the way early enough. He hasn't got a chance of points but we have. He has to understand that."

now I'm sorry Mr Horner, but you have NO RIGHT to say that about a team struggling to qualify, let alone be competitive. HRT are trying their best to race against anyone ahead of them, so you can't expect them to just drive off the road so your precious double Champion can SCRAPE a 4th!!

My estimation of Vettel and especially Horner has dropped massively. Those comments, which hopefully other people have heard, is downright disrespectful. Just proves ego is high within Red Bull

The thing is Karthikeyan didn't try to get out of the way. He made a mistake and Vettel breezed past. I support HRT as much as the next poster, but he really could've and should've backed out. Don't forget that Grosjean had similar contact in Melbourne which put him out, and I recall him getting some stick for that.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Mar 2012, 19:04

Backed out? How does he back out? Are you trying to say you wanted him to physically stop the car? He'd just recovered from running wide and was trying to get back up to speed, you can't expect him to just crawl along until it's clear again, he's got his own race to run.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 26 Mar 2012, 19:22

solarcold wrote:Conspiracy you say? There's a thing you haven't notice then.
It's not Sergio who's gonna replace Felipe.
It's...
...Narain Karthikeyan.

Yes, I mean Narain. Just put a little effort and see the links. You did not actually expect him to have another season for HRT did you? But he's here, and all that for a very cleverly planned maneuvre. You say Button was a threat to Alonso until he was humiliated by the Fastest Indian. You can also say the very same about Sebastian. Why? Because it was planned that Ferrari win the race using Narain's ideal moving chicane help. They did everything to hide this fact from you. For us it just looks like Narain is a very difficult guy to lap. Remember him being hard on Felipe that time (Canada 2011 if I remember well)? It was the first sign of the upgoing replacement. What did Narain say? "This coming from a guy who's seat is under threat."
Yup. Under his, Narain's threat. That was all to make Massa even less self-confident. See?
Why didn't Narain do the same to Hamilton? Well, for two reasons. First, three-time strike would probably start to look suspicious. Second, Hamilton was controlled by Perez. Yes, Sergio is just a part of this Narain-Massa exchange plan. He did his best, though. He also overshadows things done by Narain so that no one notices the truth.

Do it, Ferrari! DO IT! I DEMAND YOU TO!

Wait a second - isn't Tata in some way involved with Ferrari? Sponsorship or something like that.