F1 To Be Split Between BBC 1 and Sky Sports from 2012

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 19 Mar 2012, 22:56

So, I'm in an interesting position here... via a dark corner of the internet, I have been able to watch the qualifying and the race today, diligently avoiding the entire internet and all TV channels until I had done so. But it wasn't Sky's coverage I saw, it was Setanta's. Apparently "FULL SKY COVERAGE WILL FOLLOW SHORTLY" (in capitals), said the dark corner of the internet, but it's nearly Tuesday and there's no sign of it. Not that I need it now.

I've just been looking into where I'd have to point my sparkly new satellite dish at in case RTL's coverage goes bang, but it seems Setanta would come up as a scrambled channel (just like ORF... grrrrr), even if I moved my dish ten degrees east to where Astra 2 lurks. As for the RTL coverage, I can draw no conclusions about whether the signal is scrambled or not - it seems the TriStar box doesn't like being left on and automatically switched itself to standby before the qualifying session had begun. I was wondering why it was showing the time on its LED display when I arrived home instead of "0532" which I'd left it at.

Setanta's coverage reminds me of the brief period when they were showing GP2, before their UK branch went bankrupt. Actually, it's a bit more than the GP2 races, in that the coverage doesn't cut off abruptly as soon as the winner has crossed the line, but: in qualifying, they take the BBC feed, which means there is commentary on the periods where there's something going on on the track, and as soon as each session is over, there's complete silence from the commentary box before they go for a break. That's not such a problem in qualifying, which is split into three pieces by the structure of the session, but in the race - there is one commercial break in the middle. Coverage starts at the "Official F1 logo" with about five minutes to go before the start of the race, and finishes when the three drivers on the podium start spraying the champagne (so maybe the Irish TV producers can't stand to see an alcoholic drink wasted). That break in the middle, though - that's awkward. DC and DC commentate on the race as if it's being shown live on the BBC, which it isn't, but because there's no possibility of a break in the coverage there, when Setanta goes for its one advert break, there is no "and here's what you missed during the break" review, the way it used to be on ITV - no picture replays, no mention of it in the commentary, nothing. Not actually watching it live on Setanta I have no idea if there's a picture inset where that one "lost" lap of the race can be watched while the adverts are being shown, but I suspect it wasn't.

So I got to see the race, and the qualifying, all without a single hint as to what had happened before I actually saw it. Even so, it was a slightly strange experience, one I haven't had since the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix where I had to visit another dark corner of the internet and found a broadcast of the race on Speed TV in the US (with at least one British commentator, I think it's the same man who asks the announces the drivers in the press conference). Next week's RTL experience may be equally odd, but at least while the advert breaks are on, I'll still have commentary, even if it is with James Allan. Who, incidentally, I never had anywhere near as much of a problem with as most of the noisiest parts of the internet.

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 20 Mar 2012, 03:20

Enjoyed the BBC's coverage of Australia and felt really happy at the change in for the intro, (just stop calling it Formula One and return it to having titles of Grand Prix and Ivory Tower theme for its Grid Line up section). Also did anyone notice that the intro was quite similar to the 1996 intro for Grand Prix?

Got to watch Sky's intro as for a whole weekend a week before the race, I somehow had the F1 channel despite only having Sky HD with movies and not having sports, then to have my hopes cruelly ripped away when I recorded the qualifying and race to find I did not have it.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 20 Mar 2012, 04:09

If you're paying for a Sky HD package you should get the F1 channel as part of it. I'm not sure whether you have to re-tune, or whether you may need to upgrade your package maybe, but I was under the impression HD subscribers got included FOC.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 20 Mar 2012, 07:32

AndreaModa wrote:The BBC don't even have the FA Cup at the moment!

They've overspent on the Olympics I reckon. At least they kept BBC3 :lol:

What would we do without Dont Tell The Bride? :roll:

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 20 Mar 2012, 10:25

AndreaModa wrote:If you're paying for a Sky HD package you should get the F1 channel as part of it. I'm not sure whether you have to re-tune, or whether you may need to upgrade your package maybe, but I was under the impression HD subscribers got included FOC.

You're absolutely right, that's how I get i and I didn't have to change or upgrade anything. I've got Sky+ HD and I get it. If I remember correctly, when it was first announced, it was going to be that only Sky Sports subscribers would get it, but it was later changed.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 20 Mar 2012, 22:44

AndreaModa wrote:The BBC don't even have the FA Cup at the moment!

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I meant was that they would get the FA Cup *back* and only have that! They either seem to have Premiership highlights or FA Cup, never both.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Mar 2012, 03:05

This is quite interesting...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/ma ... dependence

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Mar 2012, 03:06

Barbazza wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:The BBC don't even have the FA Cup at the moment!

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I meant was that they would get the FA Cup *back* and only have that! They either seem to have Premiership highlights or FA Cup, never both.

They had both up until 1997, and again from 2004 until - I think - 2009.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Mar 2012, 07:39

Paul Hayes wrote:This is quite interesting...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/ma ... dependence

Viewing figures down 75% on last years BBC effort? :lol:

Also,
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4108 ... _coverage/

In your face, SKY!

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 21 Mar 2012, 14:08

CoopsII wrote:Viewing figures down 75% on last years BBC effort?

These numbers are actually very good for a Pay TV channel if you compare them internationally...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Mar 2012, 14:22

P_Friesacher wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Viewing figures down 75% on last years BBC effort?

These numbers are actually very good for a Pay TV channel if you compare them internationally...

Just to comapre it to another pay sports channel for a moment; ESPN.

They had 412,000 viewers for the Barclays Premier League game they broadcasted live, which was by far and away their most popular event. The only other time they climbed above 100,000 viewers was live SPL the same weekend. In third was Serie A with 67,000

I hope that last figured doesn't mean the end of Serie A on UK TV again

Anyway, the point is, unfortunately, it was still a very reasonable set of figures given the time of day and the fact it is a very expensive pay channel.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Mar 2012, 15:20

Indeed.

That 1 million peak as Button crossed the line in Australia - let's be conservative and say that one fifth of those viewers were people who'd bought a Sky Sports subscription / package upgrade especially for the F1, as opposed to those who received it as part of an HD or Sky Sports package they already had, or who live with those who had one already.

That's 200,000 people. They'd be paying different amounts for different packages on Sky or Virgin or Sky Go, etc, but let's say each of those people is, on average, giving Sky £30 a month the company wasn't getting from them beforehand. 30 x 200,000 = £6 million. That's £6 million a month Sky didn't get before. Multiply that across the year and, even if you ignore the three months with no F1 races, you still end up with £54 million a year. At least. In money Sky was not getting from anyone else before. And that's before you even consider the money from advertisers (Santander sponsoring the coverage, etc) and the fact that the actual number of new subscribers brought by the F1 is likely to be much higher than our conservative guess of 200,000.

Sky will be over the moon, I'd say.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Mar 2012, 17:19

Paul Hayes wrote:Sky will be over the moon, I'd say.

You still need to subtract whatver SKY pay Bernie for the rights, as well as the costs of production. Brundle alone is getting a million per year. That 54 million quid will soon evaporate.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Mar 2012, 18:11

CoopsII wrote:
Paul Hayes wrote:Sky will be over the moon, I'd say.

You still need to subtract whatver SKY pay Bernie for the rights, as well as the costs of production. Brundle alone is getting a million per year. That 54 million quid will soon evaporate.

As I said, that rough £54 million figure is a very low estimate indeed. I suspect they're probably making at least twice that much in reality.

The BBC paid £45 million a year for the rights when they had the exclusive deal, according to online sources. If Sky are paying the same - which I doubt, considering they've got a non-exclusive deal and are sharing with the BBC - then even if Brundle, Croft, Hill, Davidson, Kravitz and the presenters were all earning £1 million a year (which they clearly are not), and you bunged in another £2 million for travelling around the world, production facilities, etc, you'd still *equal* my bare minimum rough back-of-a-fag-packet estimate of the money they're getting back. And that's *before* you include adverts, the Santander sponsorship, etc.

In summary, personally I think Sky are doing very good business out of their F1 deal.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Mar 2012, 18:16

Paul Hayes wrote: I suspect they're probably making at least twice that much in reality.

Based on what?

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Mar 2012, 19:06

CoopsII wrote:
Paul Hayes wrote: I suspect they're probably making at least twice that much in reality.

Based on what?

Well as I say, none of these figures are based on anything at all other than speculations on my part. The rough £54 million I came up with, as I explained in my earlier post, was based on the idea that - say - one-fifth of the one million people BARB recorded as watching Button cross the line in Melbourne were new Sky customers brought by the F1. As I said, I'd say that was a conservative estimate.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll get a much better idea of how much money they're making out of it in time, via the Media Guardian website, etc.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 21 Mar 2012, 19:58

kostas22 wrote:.... In third was Serie A with 67,000

I hope that last figured doesn't mean the end of Serie A on UK TV again

Probably not, but I wish ESPN would at least pretend that they care about it when they clearly don't. I did notice that they'd bothered to do a proper preview show for one of the Sunday afternoon games the other week.....then saw that they'd got Kelly Dalglish to present it.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Mar 2012, 18:30

Im sorry to revive this thread but I really wanted to share this. On the BBC website, on one of the blogs I was reading the viewers comments. Half of them are still banging on about the SKY deal (GET OVER IT!) and one highlighted how appalled he was that he'd learnt the result of the Aussie GP when he visited the website :lol:

How stupid, he argued, are the BBC to publish race results on the website before the BBC highlights program had aired?

Not as stupid as the loser who spent his morning avoiding the race result by viewing an F1 site!!! :roll:

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 25 Mar 2012, 19:34

CoopsII wrote:Im sorry to revive this thread but I really wanted to share this. On the BBC website, on one of the blogs I was reading the viewers comments. Half of them are still banging on about the SKY deal (GET OVER IT!) and one highlighted how appalled he was that he'd learnt the result of the Aussie GP when he visited the website How stupid, he argued, are the BBC to publish race results on the website before the BBC highlights program had aired?

Not as stupid as the loser who spent his morning avoiding the race result by viewing an F1 site!!!

I didn't check how it was but sensible would be reading "Australian GP results" rather than "Button wins season-opener in Melbourne". Have a link and don't reveal anything on main page.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 26 Mar 2012, 11:25

After yesterday I don't know how I ever lived without Sky to be honest. Put it on to record Saturday night, had a lie in due to turning clocks forward, fast-forwarded most of the build up, especially the grid walk, also fast forwarded most of the red flag and safety car periods so I was back live by the end. Nice.

Saying that BBC highlights aren't bad but they're sorely missing Brundle and Ted Kravitz, I can't stand Gary Anderson (Ben Edwards is OK but I preferred the relationship between Brundle and Coulthard).

China is the first one BBC have live so I might give that a chance to see what it's like.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 26 Mar 2012, 17:32

CoopsII wrote:Im sorry to revive this thread but I really wanted to share this. On the BBC website, on one of the blogs I was reading the viewers comments. Half of them are still banging on about the SKY deal (GET OVER IT!)

Ye gods. Was it, by any chance, HCumber? I've seen that name so many times and every post, and there are thousands of them, is ended with "NO TO SKY", and he hardly ever sticks on topic. Seriously... you want "NO TO SKY", do what I did - especially now that I have the proof that it works!

RTL plus Five Live was a bit like ITV, in a way, only with James Allen continuing his chuntering during the advert breaks so at least I could keep track of what was going on.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Mar 2012, 17:39

Bleu wrote:I didn't check how it was but sensible would be reading "Australian GP results" rather than "Button wins season-opener in Melbourne". Have a link and don't reveal anything on main page.

Eh? Irrespective of what the headline is why on Gods earth would you visit an F1 page anyway?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 28 Mar 2012, 11:33

Umm, maybe this has been covered but the US GP is a BBC highlights race but it starts at 7pm UK time.

What time will the BBC be showing that I wonder?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 28 Mar 2012, 11:44

CoopsII wrote:Umm, maybe this has been covered but the US GP is a BBC highlights race but it starts at 7pm UK time.

What time will the BBC be showing that I wonder?

Midnight?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 Mar 2012, 16:12

CoopsII wrote:Umm, maybe this has been covered but the US GP is a BBC highlights race but it starts at 7pm UK time.

What time will the BBC be showing that I wonder?

This is something that I have been wondering for a while too. Particularly as Canada too is a BBC highlights only race. Nothing in any of the pre-season blurb has given any indication whatsoever what the BBC are planning for these two races. I fear therefore that their plan may be to some the highlights on a Monday evening. I reall, really, really hope I am wrong but I can't yet see any evidence to contradict this...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 28 Mar 2012, 18:54

Think I read somewhere the BBC highlights for Canada are on around 10:30pm. I can't remember where so don't take it as gospel!!

Post by **Ataxia** » 28 Mar 2012, 19:45

One question, what's James Allen actually like on radio? He doesn't still bum Hamilton does he?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 28 Mar 2012, 21:31

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:One question, what's James Allen actually like on radio? He doesn't still bum Hamilton does he?

I get the impression that he is commentating off the pictures of the World Feed and has a suspicion that there are quite a few of us listening to the radio commentary because we've got pictures to put with it, so... it's not really like radio commentary. I remember one lap in qualifying for Malaysia where Alguersaurus took over the commentary and described what was happening on the lap, but otherwise, it's more like TV commentary with the sound of the cars in the background.

dr-baker may have a different impression after listening to the race as it happened then watching the highlights later (...or was that someone else?)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 Mar 2012, 02:55

Slightly off-topic but EJ's now an honourary OBE

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 Mar 2012, 07:07

dr-baker wrote:I fear therefore that their plan may be to some the highlights on a Monday evening. I reall, really, really hope I am wrong but I can't yet see any evidence to contradict this...

Or any evidence to suggest it either?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Mar 2012, 10:58

dinizintheoven wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:One question, what's James Allen actually like on radio? He doesn't still bum Hamilton does he?

dr-baker may have a different impression after listening to the race as it happened then watching the highlights later (...or was that someone else?)

That was indeed me. The commentary is useful for being informed as to what is going on during the race (and thus the results won't be spoiled if I catch them before the highlights!), but if he is purely describing what is on the world feed (as Jamie and Enoch did during the Indian race last year!), then that wouldn't surprise me. Is it possible that they are actually in Britain, commentating on it, as Murray Walker and James Hunt were known to do for some flyaway races in the 70s/80s?

CoopsII wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I fear therefore that their plan may be to some the highlights on a Monday evening. I really, really, really hope I am wrong but I can't yet see any evidence to contradict this...

Or any evidence to suggest it either?

No, no evidence either way. As I said, it is my fear, and I hope I'm wrong!

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 Mar 2012, 15:14

I wonder what the procedure for situations like Canada last year is? If the BBC have a set broadcast time do they have to change it so its X-Amount of hours after race completion?

Post by **mario** » 29 Mar 2012, 16:27

dr-baker wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:One question, what's James Allen actually like on radio? He doesn't still bum Hamilton does he?

dr-baker may have a different impression after listening to the race as it happened then watching the highlights later (...or was that someone else?)

That was indeed me. The commentary is useful for being informed as to what is going on during the race (and thus the results won't be spoiled if I catch them before the highlights!), but if he is purely describing what is on the world feed (as Jamie and Enoch did during the Indian race last year!), then that wouldn't surprise me. Is it possible that they are actually in Britain, commentating on it, as Murray Walker and James Hunt were known to do for some flyaway races in the 70s/80s?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case - we know that the BBC is currently under pressure to keep costs down as far as possible, and I guess that one way of doing that would be to keep the radio teams in the UK. It probably does not have a major impact on the overall quality of the program if they were doing just that, whilst making a probably not insubstantial saving on transportation and accommodation costs.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 30 Mar 2012, 11:42

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:That was indeed me. The commentary is useful for being informed as to what is going on during the race (and thus the results won't be spoiled if I catch them before the highlights!), but if he is purely describing what is on the world feed (as Jamie and Enoch did during the Indian race last year!), then that wouldn't surprise me. Is it possible that they are actually in Britain, commentating on it, as Murray Walker and James Hunt were known to do for some flyaway races in the 70s/80s?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case - we know that the BBC is currently under pressure to keep costs down as far as possible, and I guess that one way of doing that would be to keep the radio teams in the UK. It probably does not have a major impact on the overall quality of the program if they were doing just that, whilst making a probably not insubstantial saving on transportation and accommodation costs.

James Allen has been in Australia (where IIRC he conducted the post-quali and race interviews) and in Malaysia. Presumably this is also for the benefit of his own website as well as the television pieces he is contracted to do for Network Ten in Australia. So no, he hasn't been just commentating from a studio in the UK.

Post by **tommykl** » 01 Apr 2012, 10:28

When I lived in Malaysia, the coverage was even worse than News Corp.

It was a joint venture between News Corp. and Disney (ESPN Star Sports), leading to having to get a satellite dish, with no coverage of free practice whatsoever and although Steve Slater was an OK commentator, the actual commentary was very biased towards the top teams, and the whole of Asia was not spared from Lewisteria. Not to mention Alex Yoong being pretty clueless about what was going on.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 14 Apr 2012, 07:17

I mostly watched the BBC coverage of qualifying in China today, but did flick across to Sky once or twice.

Most intriguing was in the build-up when they were both interviewing Senna, ostensibly live, at the same time. Now, I would have though that the Safeguarding Trust rules as I understand them would prevent the BBC from running something as-live when it isn't, but when I flicked to Sky again later on I happened to catch Brundle underlining that their interview with Senna had been live... So someone's certainly been a little bit naughty there.

What I also noted was that - on Virgin at least - the BBC were a second or two ahead of Sky.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 14 Apr 2012, 07:19

eytl wrote:
mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:That was indeed me. The commentary is useful for being informed as to what is going on during the race (and thus the results won't be spoiled if I catch them before the highlights!), but if he is purely describing what is on the world feed (as Jamie and Enoch did during the Indian race last year!), then that wouldn't surprise me. Is it possible that they are actually in Britain, commentating on it, as Murray Walker and James Hunt were known to do for some flyaway races in the 70s/80s?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case - we know that the BBC is currently under pressure to keep costs down as far as possible, and I guess that one way of doing that would be to keep the radio teams in the UK. It probably does not have a major impact on the overall quality of the program if they were doing just that, whilst making a probably not insubstantial saving on transportation and accommodation costs.

James Allen has been in Australia (where IIRC he conducted the post-quali and race interviews) and in Malaysia. Presumably this is also for the benefit of his own website as well as the television pieces he is contracted to do for Network Ten in Australia. So no, he hasn't been just commentating from a studio in the UK.

Plus if he wasn't there and they were trying to give the impression he was, it would contravene every rule in the Safeguarding Trust book, and there's no way the BBC would take that kind of risk these days.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 14 Apr 2012, 08:16

Hmm, the build up show is much better on BBC, but half way through Q2 I got so fed up with the commentary team that I swapped to Sky and it was so much better. The worst part is in Q1 where they were saying how bad Massa was for using the soft tire oblivious to the fact that Alonso also was clearly going to need to use the soft tire too. The whole BBC team seems a good minute or 2 behind what was actually going on. I think for the race I will do the same, Beeb build up, Sky race.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 14 Apr 2012, 21:00

I didn't see the quali live but the report on BBC Breakfast was extremely poor. Mention of Vettel not making Q3, the Mercedes being at the front and the McLaren drivers (naturally) but no mention of Kobayashi whatsoever!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 Apr 2012, 15:15

Wizzie wrote:
James1978 wrote:The BBC Have:

China
Spain
Monaco
Europe
Great Britain
Belgium
Singapore
Korea
Abu Dhabi
Brazil

If I hadn't got Sky I'd be most gutted about Australia and Canada not being live.

China's debatable as a good race at best. It's only good because it rains pretty much all the bloody time whenever the race is on

And you scoffed at me when I put a smiley against China. :lol:

Seriously it's more often than not one of the best races and this year was no exception!