What If?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Oct 2011, 15:36

2007 was easily Hamilton's best season.
2008 was good, but Massa was unlucky not to be champion.
2009 was good towards the end, but horrible at the start.
2010 was back to his best, great season.
2011 has been poor so far for Hamilton, except for Melbourne, Shanghai, Barcelona, Silverstone and Nurburgring.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 10 Oct 2011, 21:05

What if Kobayashi and Massa swapped places at the Beginning of this year.....?

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 11 Oct 2011, 00:20

WeirdKerr wrote:What if Kobayashi and Massa swapped places at the Beginning of this year.....?

Kobayashi would have definetly scored a podium by now. A win? Maybe not, as he would still be #2, but he would be way more competitive than Massa.

Massa in Sauber doesn't go very well and gets sacked after Hungary. Oddly enough, Heidfeld gets a seat for Sauber once again (seeing how he got sacked from Renault), and both fade into obscurity...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 11 Oct 2011, 16:08

JeremyMcClean wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:What if Kobayashi and Massa swapped places at the Beginning of this year.....?

Kobayashi would have definetly scored a podium by now. A win? Maybe not, as he would still be #2, but he would be way more competitive than Massa.

Massa in Sauber doesn't go very well and gets sacked after Hungary. Oddly enough, Heidfeld gets a seat for Sauber once again (seeing how he got sacked from Renault), and both fade into obscurity...

Surely that would be a record number of stints with the same team, 4.

Saying that, I think 3 is the record anyway. 01-03, 06-09, 10

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Oct 2011, 22:35

Didn't Piercarlo Ghinzani have 4 stints with Osella?

1. 1981
2. 1983 - mid '85 (left for Toleman)
3. 1986 (left to drive for Ligier in 87)
4. 1989

Poor guy.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 11 Oct 2011, 22:54

Surely, Sakon Yamamoto can beat that in a few years, that is if you count ''teams run by colin kolles'.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 Oct 2011, 01:09

Surely Pierluigi Martini and Minardi are close to the record?

What's the record for having the most drivers owned by the same team on the grid? Red Bull have 3 (5 if you could Buemi and Alguersuari).

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 12 Oct 2011, 10:43

AdrianSutil wrote:Surely Pierluigi Martini and Minardi are close to the record?

1985 Debut
1988 Return till 1991
1993 Return (again) till mid-way to 1995

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 12 Oct 2011, 22:24

What if Nico Hulkenburg stayed at Williams?

wmetcalf68 · Post by **wmetcalf68** » 13 Oct 2011, 00:22

shinji wrote:What if Timo Glock had 'accidentally' slid in to Hamilton as he passed him at Brazil last year?

I would be happy! :mrgreen:

[/quote] Me too! :lol:

wmetcalf68 · Post by **wmetcalf68** » 13 Oct 2011, 00:24

What if Schumi didn't hit Villeneuve at Jerez? :?:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 Oct 2011, 00:47

wmetcalf68 wrote:What if Schumi didn't hit Villeneuve at Jerez?

Villeneuve wouldve passed him a few corners later. Schumacher's car was falling apart with a water leak I think, and was losng more and more speed per lap. He drove into him knowing it was either take Villeneuve out or lose the title.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 Oct 2011, 00:48

JeremyMcClean wrote:What if Nico Hulkenburg stayed at Williams?

He wouldve done better than Maldonado and pushed Barrichello more, probably being ahead on points. But wouldn't be setting the world alight.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 13 Oct 2011, 07:27

What if Enzo Ferrari had taken John Surtee's advice and signed on Ayrton Senna for 1985?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Oct 2011, 08:05

Wizzie wrote:What if Enzo Ferrari had taken John Surtee's advice and signed on Ayrton Senna for 1985?

I'd imagine Senna would've won a few races, perhaps a few more than with Lotus, challenged certainly for the 1985 title, but I doubt he would've won any. Probably would leave Ferrari to go to McLaren for 1988, and the rest we know. Nelson Piquet probably goes to Ferrari instead of Lotus in 1988, but winds up at Benetton anyway, possibly a year or two earlier. Michele Alboreto retires sooner, and, having never had a shot at the title, is occasionally named as someone who could've won one.

Meanwhile, at Lotus, they are less successful without Ayrton Senna, but are still competitive with Elio de Angelis, preventing him from going to Brabham and dying in testing. He probably gets picked up by Williams after 1987, and is forced to be Mansell's lackey in '91 and '92. After then he is cut loose and spends a few years going down the grid before retiring. Alternatively, he refuses to play along in 1991 and Williams hangs on to Boutsen instead, and de Angelis replaces Nannini at Benetton. de Angelis performs well against Piquet, and the team opts to keep de Angelis for 1992 and put a young Michael Schumacher alongside him. de Angelis proves to be Schumacher's toughest teammate, but cannot beat Schumacher, although he wins about 10-12 more races and Benetton wins the Constructors' title in 1994 instead of Williams. He retires not long after 1995.

Following de Angelis' departure, Lotus falls apart without a good driver and goes under a couple years sooner, in 1992 or 1993. Johnny Herbert is never able to prove his talent.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 13 Oct 2011, 09:11

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What if Enzo Ferrari had taken John Surtee's advice and signed on Ayrton Senna for 1985?

I'd imagine Senna would've won a few races, perhaps a few more than with Lotus, challenged certainly for the 1985 title, but I doubt he would've won any. Probably would leave Ferrari to go to McLaren for 1988, and the rest we know. Nelson Piquet probably goes to Ferrari instead of Lotus in 1988, but winds up at Benetton anyway, possibly a year or two earlier. Michele Alboreto retires sooner, and, having never had a shot at the title, is occasionally named as someone who could've won one.

Meanwhile, at Lotus, they are less successful without Ayrton Senna, but are still competitive with Elio de Angelis, preventing him from going to Brabham and dying in testing. He probably gets picked up by Williams after 1987, and is forced to be Mansell's lackey in '91 and '92. After then he is cut loose and spends a few years going down the grid before retiring. Alternatively, he refuses to play along in 1991 and Williams hangs on to Boutsen instead, and de Angelis replaces Nannini at Benetton. de Angelis performs well against Piquet, and the team opts to keep de Angelis for 1992 and put a young Michael Schumacher alongside him. de Angelis proves to be Schumacher's toughest teammate, but cannot beat Schumacher, although he wins about 10-12 more races and Benetton wins the Constructors' title in 1994 instead of Williams. He retires not long after 1995.

Following de Angelis' departure, Lotus falls apart without a good driver and goes under a couple years sooner, in 1992 or 1993. Johnny Herbert is never able to prove his talent.

Following the F3000 crash at Brands, Eddie Jordan keeps tabs on his employee through his recovery process in 1989, another stellar year in F3000 in 1990 battling with Alan McNish, Johnny Becomes an F1 driver with Jordan's debut F191 alongside Andrea De Cesaris, Schumacher is never able to prove his talent...at spa that year.

Post by **mario** » 13 Oct 2011, 12:38

wmetcalf68 wrote:
shinji wrote:What if Timo Glock had 'accidentally' slid in to Hamilton as he passed him at Brazil last year?

I would be happy!

Me too!

[/quote]
And the Brazilain crowd would probably have been praising the Toyota team instead (the Renault team gave some of the Toyota mechanics spare Renault overalls after the race since they genuinely feared for their safety).

Post by **tommykl** » 13 Oct 2011, 15:49

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What if Enzo Ferrari had taken John Surtee's advice and signed on Ayrton Senna for 1985?

I'd imagine Senna would've won a few races, perhaps a few more than with Lotus, challenged certainly for the 1985 title, but I doubt he would've won any. Probably would leave Ferrari to go to McLaren for 1988, and the rest we know. Nelson Piquet probably goes to Ferrari instead of Lotus in 1988, but winds up at Benetton anyway, possibly a year or two earlier. Michele Alboreto retires sooner, and, having never had a shot at the title, is occasionally named as someone who could've won one.

Meanwhile, at Lotus, they are less successful without Ayrton Senna, but are still competitive with Elio de Angelis, preventing him from going to Brabham and dying in testing. He probably gets picked up by Williams after 1987, and is forced to be Mansell's lackey in '91 and '92. After then he is cut loose and spends a few years going down the grid before retiring. Alternatively, he refuses to play along in 1991 and Williams hangs on to Boutsen instead, and de Angelis replaces Nannini at Benetton. de Angelis performs well against Piquet, and the team opts to keep de Angelis for 1992 and put a young Michael Schumacher alongside him. de Angelis proves to be Schumacher's toughest teammate, but cannot beat Schumacher, although he wins about 10-12 more races and Benetton wins the Constructors' title in 1994 instead of Williams. He retires not long after 1995.

Following de Angelis' departure, Lotus falls apart without a good driver and goes under a couple years sooner, in 1992 or 1993. Johnny Herbert is never able to prove his talent.

You forgot that de Angelis would probably be the most experienced driver of all-time at his retirement.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 13 Oct 2011, 18:04

tommykl wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What if Enzo Ferrari had taken John Surtee's advice and signed on Ayrton Senna for 1985?

I'd imagine Senna would've won a few races, perhaps a few more than with Lotus, challenged certainly for the 1985 title, but I doubt he would've won any. Probably would leave Ferrari to go to McLaren for 1988, and the rest we know. Nelson Piquet probably goes to Ferrari instead of Lotus in 1988, but winds up at Benetton anyway, possibly a year or two earlier. Michele Alboreto retires sooner, and, having never had a shot at the title, is occasionally named as someone who could've won one.

Meanwhile, at Lotus, they are less successful without Ayrton Senna, but are still competitive with Elio de Angelis, preventing him from going to Brabham and dying in testing. He probably gets picked up by Williams after 1987, and is forced to be Mansell's lackey in '91 and '92. After then he is cut loose and spends a few years going down the grid before retiring. Alternatively, he refuses to play along in 1991 and Williams hangs on to Boutsen instead, and de Angelis replaces Nannini at Benetton. de Angelis performs well against Piquet, and the team opts to keep de Angelis for 1992 and put a young Michael Schumacher alongside him. de Angelis proves to be Schumacher's toughest teammate, but cannot beat Schumacher, although he wins about 10-12 more races and Benetton wins the Constructors' title in 1994 instead of Williams. He retires not long after 1995.

Following de Angelis' departure, Lotus falls apart without a good driver and goes under a couple years sooner, in 1992 or 1993. Johnny Herbert is never able to prove his talent.

You forgot that de Angelis would probably be the most experienced driver of all-time at his retirement.

Add to that that Lotus would probably sign Warwick instead of Dumfries. Probably then Patrese would be stuck at Brabham, and being unable to find a top drive in 1988, although maybe keeps on driving around in the back of the field.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 18 Oct 2011, 17:08

An interesting question, not by me though:

redbulljack14 wrote:Yeah, Panis a genuine championship contender at one point in 1997. Imagine if he had won the championship.

cretoxyrhina · Post by **cretoxyrhina** » 19 Oct 2011, 11:09

Shizuka wrote:An interesting question, not by me though:

redbulljack14 wrote:Yeah, Panis a genuine championship contender at one point in 1997. Imagine if he had won the championship.

JV will never won a championship, but the rest will be the same, remember it's Peugeot engine that Prost used in 1998...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 19 Oct 2011, 16:16

Shizuka wrote:An interesting question, not by me though:

redbulljack14 wrote:Yeah, Panis a genuine championship contender at one point in 1997. Imagine if he had won the championship.

Okay, heading into Jerez, JV and Schumacher are the main contenders for the title, with Schumacher leading by a single point. Panis is 9 points behind, having had a brilliant season with wins in Spain and Austria causing most to rank him driver of the year already. Knowing his only chance to take the title is to win, Panis goes all-out and qualifies on pole, and wins the race having been chased by Mika Hakkinen all the way. Meanwhile, Schumacher has his troubles, and when Villeneuve comes to pass him, he punts the Williams into the gravel. Schumacher suffers a puncture, but is assured the title, needing only 6th to deny Panis. Unfortunately (for Schumi), the problem is a bit more significant as it turns out the toe on the left-front is damaged, causing increased wear. Despite his best efforts, Schumacher finished only 8th, handing the unlikely Panis a title and the world one of it's most popular championship climaxes.

However, the title does not make Alain Prost a better team manager. The team struggles through 1998, with only the odd podium for Panis. Meanwhile, at Williams, both drivers are released from their contracts. With Panis' Prost even worse than the Williams, and with Ferrari and McLaren already having a lead driver, Panis replaces Villeneuve, with Ralf Schumacher in the second car. Alex Zanardi never returns to F1 and remains in CART, winning a couple more titles and becoming one of the series' most successful drivers. Prost's decline proceeds as usual, now that Panis is no longer propping the team up. Jarno Trulli is significantly less impressive going into 1999 but redeems himself throughout the season and his career

Panis returns to the top step of the podium in 1999 in his first race for Williams, and remains a contender for the championship until late in the season. However, like Frentzen, the car is not good enough to give him a championship. Williams retains Panis and Ralf Schumacher for 2000, with Jenson Button being given a drive for Minardi, clearly beating Marc Gene. Panis scores more podiums, but the second win for Williams is still in the distance as McLaren and Ferrari were well out in front. Ralf Schumacher looks rather outmatched by his world champion teammate consistently throughout the season.

Following 2000, Williams decide to dump Ralf Schumacher and run Montoya and Button in a test to determine who will partner Panis for 2001. Montoya eventually gets the nod, with Button moving to Benetton and his career goes as normal. Schumacher decides to move to Toyota, and helps the team achieve more success in 2002-2004, but his career eventually winds up the same, having never won a Grand Prix. Panis relishes the more competitive car, and establishes himself mid-season as Michael Schumacher's biggest threat - not that that meant much when the Ferrari was so far ahead. He wins four races in San Marino, Canada, France, and Germany, as well as a ton of podiums. Montoya looks a bit more ordinary against Panis, but is still impressive and still wins Monza.

2002 sees the Williams a clear second best to the Ferrari, and it takes all Panis can muster to win in Malaysia and Italy, finishing a close third to Barrichello. In 2003, Montoya gets a storming start as he attempts to establish himself as the lead Williams driver. However, a hat-trick of wins for Panis in Canada, Europe, and France hauls him back into the hunt, and he closes strongly with wins in the US and Japan to seal a second title for the Frenchman. 2004 was significantly less successful as Williams take a step back - another win in Japan was the highlight of the season.

For 2005, McLaren drop the long-running David Coulthard, and consider the youth of Juan Pablo Montoya versus the experience and two world championships of Olivier Panis. In the end they decide to sign up Panis, leaving Montoya with no immediate top drives available. In the end, he signs up for Toyota, leaving Jarno Trulli without a drive and having to switch to sportscars. With Montoya onboard in 2005, Toyota takes victory in Bahrain, but the Columbian leaves for NASCAR after a dismal 2006. Meanwhile, Panis acclimitises to McLaren well, catching Schumacher and Alonso late in San Marino and stealing the win with a couple of class overtakes. He also wins in Britain, Germany, Italy, and Brazil, taking more points off of Alonso as well as putting his own championship charge on. In the end, it doesn't change much - Alonso takes the title, but with a bit more drama, with Raikkonen beating Panis to second.

Panis is again saddled with a subpar car in 2006, but fought to make the most of it anyway. A season with a few scattered podium was capped off well with a win (albeit an inherited one) at Japan. Despite this, Panis knows his options for 2007 are limited - Ferrari is sealed up with Massa and Raikkonen on board, and McLaren is sewn up between Alonso and Hamilton. Seeing the writing on the wall, the 39-year old Panis decides to get out while he's still competitive.

Panis is regarded alongside Hakkinen as Michael Schumacher's greatest rival, and is considered by some as one of the top 10 all-time F1 drivers. Ralf Schumacher is seen as a wasted talent, as is Montoya.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 19 Oct 2011, 17:47

Can I just further ask about two points:

(1) With Alex Zanardi staying in CART, hence competing in the 2001 season, though probably not with Mo Nunn, does he still have that crash?
(2) With Jenson Button starting his career at Minardi, was there a shootout between him and Bruno Junqueira to see who kept that seat warm while waiting for a proper go at Williams?

Vepe · Post by **Vepe** » 19 Oct 2011, 19:54

dinizintheoven wrote:Can I just further ask about two points:

(1) With Alex Zanardi staying in CART, hence competing in the 2001 season, though probably not with Mo Nunn, does he still have that crash?
(2) With Jenson Button starting his career at Minardi, was there a shootout between him and Bruno Junqueira to see who kept that seat warm while waiting for a proper go at Williams?

I also have a question: What is the performance of McLaren in 2003 ?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 20 Oct 2011, 09:34

dinizintheoven wrote:Can I just further ask about two points:

(1) With Alex Zanardi staying in CART, hence competing in the 2001 season, though probably not with Mo Nunn, does he still have that crash?
(2) With Jenson Button starting his career at Minardi, was there a shootout between him and Bruno Junqueira to see who kept that seat warm while waiting for a proper go at Williams?

1. No, he doesn't.
2. Yes, there was.

Vepe wrote:I also have a question: What is the performance of McLaren in 2003 ?

Pretty much the same. They start well, with Coulthard and Raikkonen winning in Australia and Malaysia, but tail off after that. Raikkonen stays in the title hunt, but Panis' success means he is more of an outside shot for the title than in real life.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Oct 2011, 09:36

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Vepe wrote:I also have a question: What is the performance of McLaren in 2003 ?

Pretty much the same. They start well, with Coulthard and Raikkonen winning in Australia and Malaysia, but tail off after that. Raikkonen stays in the title hunt, but Panis' success means he is more of an outside shot for the title than in real life.

Will McLaren still fail epically at getting the MP4/18 ready? :lol:

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 27 Oct 2011, 09:57

What if Bertrand Gachot did not spray CS gas in a London Taxi, where would he have ended up in 1992, still at Larousse, Jordan or somewhere else?

What would have happened if BMW said to Seb. Vettel you cannot join a rival team under any circumstances. Where woukd the likes of Kubica or Heidfeld would be, and would Red Bull be winning as many races as they are now?

What if Mika Hakkinen returned in 2003, who would be relieved for the 'Flying Finn'?

What of Jos Verstappen did actually race in 2002? Would he have been more successful than Frentzen?

What would have happened if Red Bull Team USA buy out Arrows late in 2002, would Red Bull Racing be around now?

What would have happened if Pierluigi Martini won in Australia 1989? He was fastest in warm-up by a big margin according to Forza Minardi before the rain came, to add to that what would have happed if Jos The Boss stayed on track in Brazil 2003?

What if Luciano Burti did not crash in Belgium, and continued for the season. Would Tomas Enge race in F1?

I could go on and on....!

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 28 Oct 2011, 20:20

David AGS wrote:What if Bertrand Gachot did not spray CS gas in a London Taxi, where would he have ended up in 1992, still at Larousse, Jordan or somewhere else?

What would have happened if BMW said to Seb. Vettel you cannot join a rival team under any circumstances. Where woukd the likes of Kubica or Heidfeld would be, and would Red Bull be winning as many races as they are now?

Gachot would still have been at Larrousse in 1992. But he would have finished the year off with Jordan. Which means Michael Schumacher doesn't get to start with them in Belgium. Which means that he doesn't have the career he has, etc. I could go on but I might leave that up to Jeroen Krautmeir to do another one of those Flash Fiction stories. (Once he completes his first one, that is.)

For BMW, Timo Glock gets the start. Vettel still replaces Scott Speed, though later in the season.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 28 Oct 2011, 20:37

David AGS wrote:What would have happened if Pierluigi Martini won in Australia 1989? He was fastest in warm-up by a big margin according to Forza Minardi before the rain came, to add to that what would have happed if Jos The Boss stayed on track in Brazil 2003?

In 2003 it wouldn't have made any difference - look at where Jordan ended up despite the win.

1989 is a whole other story, Minardi might have been a more successful team for years. But they wouldn't be as legendary, as they're now!

Post by **mario** » 28 Oct 2011, 22:51

Wizzie wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Vepe wrote:I also have a question: What is the performance of McLaren in 2003 ?

Pretty much the same. They start well, with Coulthard and Raikkonen winning in Australia and Malaysia, but tail off after that. Raikkonen stays in the title hunt, but Panis' success means he is more of an outside shot for the title than in real life.

Will McLaren still fail epically at getting the MP4/18 ready?

Probably yes - Newey seriously screwed up the design of that car as he was trying to push the design of that car far beyond what Mercedes or McLaren could do with their available resources at the time.

JeremyMcClean wrote:
David AGS wrote:What if Bertrand Gachot did not spray CS gas in a London Taxi, where would he have ended up in 1992, still at Larousse, Jordan or somewhere else?

What would have happened if BMW said to Seb. Vettel you cannot join a rival team under any circumstances. Where woukd the likes of Kubica or Heidfeld would be, and would Red Bull be winning as many races as they are now?

Gachot would still have been at Larrousse in 1992. But he would have finished the year off with Jordan. Which means Michael Schumacher doesn't get to start with them in Belgium. Which means that he doesn't have the career he has, etc. I could go on but I might leave that up to Jeroen Krautmeir to do another one of those Flash Fiction stories. (Once he completes his first one, that is.)

For BMW, Timo Glock gets the start. Vettel still replaces Scott Speed, though later in the season.

IIRC, there was one poster who pointed out that relations between Eddie Jordan and Bertrand Gachot were already strained and that Jordan wasn't exactly unhappy to see Gachot go, so he might well have been on his way out of the team before the end of the season anyway. As for what might happen to Schumacher, you would have to assume that he would have driven for Sauber thanks to the Mercedes deal - Mercedes did have a contract which could have forced Schumacher to drive for Sauber (they could place him at a customer team of theirs), but they decided not to force the issue.

As for Vettel, well, given that Mateschitz had already earmarked Vettel for the Red Bull works team before he even drove for BMW Sauber, I expect that, much like what happened to Schumacher, Mateschitz would have made an offer to BMW Sauber that they couldn't refuse. Mind you, given what happened to Kubica when Ferrari tried to sign him up to replace Massa - where the contact terms he had with BMW Sauber, unsurprisingly, were especially onerous so he couldn't defect from the team mid season - I imagine that if BMW Sauber had wanted to hold onto Vettel they could quite easily have made things a lot more difficult for Red Bull Racing than they did in the end.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 28 Oct 2011, 22:53

What if Badoer hadn't crashed into Villeneuve at Monaco 1996?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Oct 2011, 05:52

mario wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:
David AGS wrote:What if Bertrand Gachot did not spray CS gas in a London Taxi, where would he have ended up in 1992, still at Larousse, Jordan or somewhere else?

Gachot would still have been at Larrousse in 1992. But he would have finished the year off with Jordan. Which means Michael Schumacher doesn't get to start with them in Belgium. Which means that he doesn't have the career he has, etc. I could go on but I might leave that up to Jeroen Krautmeir to do another one of those Flash Fiction stories. (Once he completes his first one, that is.)

For BMW, Timo Glock gets the start. Vettel still replaces Scott Speed, though later in the season.

IIRC, there was one poster who pointed out that relations between Eddie Jordan and Bertrand Gachot were already strained and that Jordan wasn't exactly unhappy to see Gachot go, so he might well have been on his way out of the team before the end of the season anyway. As for what might happen to Schumacher, you would have to assume that he would have driven for Sauber thanks to the Mercedes deal - Mercedes did have a contract which could have forced Schumacher to drive for Sauber (they could place him at a customer team of theirs), but they decided not to force the issue.

If Schumacher did not debut for Jordan, and Sauber chose not to have Schumacher in favour of the drivers they originally chose, could Schumacher have debuted for Pacific in exchange for free Ilmor engines?

Post by **tommykl** » 29 Oct 2011, 06:18

kostas22 wrote:What if Badoer hadn't crashed into Villeneuve at Monaco 1996?

Assuming Badoer kept it on the track until the end of the race, he would score his and Forti's first points, Forti would probably continue long enough for the new car to show potential, but they don't make it to 1997.

We all celebrate Brett Lunger as the driver to start the most races without scoring a single point.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 29 Oct 2011, 15:04

dr-baker wrote:
If Schumacher did not debut for Jordan, and Sauber chose not to have Schumacher in favour of the drivers they originally chose, could Schumacher have debuted for Pacific in exchange for free Ilmor engines?

And get Gachot kicked out by Schumacher after all? That would be funny

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Oct 2011, 15:18

tommykl wrote:
kostas22 wrote:What if Badoer hadn't crashed into Villeneuve at Monaco 1996?

Assuming Badoer kept it on the track until the end of the race, he would score his and Forti's first points, Forti would probably continue long enough for the new car to show potential, but they don't make it to 1997.

We all celebrate Brett Lunger as the driver to start the most races without scoring a single point.

...and his gearbox failure in Europe 1999 isn't as saddening.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 29 Oct 2011, 16:39

JeremyMcClean wrote:
tommykl wrote:
kostas22 wrote:What if Badoer hadn't crashed into Villeneuve at Monaco 1996?

Assuming Badoer kept it on the track until the end of the race, he would score his and Forti's first points, Forti would probably continue long enough for the new car to show potential, but they don't make it to 1997.

We all celebrate Brett Lunger as the driver to start the most races without scoring a single point.

...and his gearbox failure in Europe 1999 isn't as saddening.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but the final classification had Salo and Hakkinen 5 laps down in 5th and 6th. Badoer was already 6 laps behind Panis when he hit Villeneuve, so wouldn't have scored anyway. It's a popular myth saying Badoer would've scored points, but sadly he wouldn't.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Oct 2011, 17:18

AdrianSutil wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble here, but the final classification had Salo and Hakkinen 5 laps down in 5th and 6th. Badoer was already 6 laps behind Panis when he hit Villeneuve, so wouldn't have scored anyway. It's a popular myth saying Badoer would've scored points, but sadly he wouldn't.

That would imply that Badoer couldn't have gotten a lap back to take these points...
Yes, he could have. Shut up, if we continue to tell us it is so, it will become true!

wmetcalf68 · Post by **wmetcalf68** » 29 Oct 2011, 19:01

[/quote]
If Schumacher did not debut for Jordan, and Sauber chose not to have Schumacher in favour of the drivers they originally chose, could Schumacher have debuted for Pacific in exchange for free Ilmor engines?[/quote]I'd love to see that! :lol:

wmetcalf68 · Post by **wmetcalf68** » 29 Oct 2011, 19:04

Klon wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble here, but the final classification had Salo and Hakkinen 5 laps down in 5th and 6th. Badoer was already 6 laps behind Panis when he hit Villeneuve, so wouldn't have scored anyway. It's a popular myth saying Badoer would've scored points, but sadly he wouldn't.

That would imply that Badoer couldn't have gotten a lap back to take these points...
Yes, he could have. Shut up, if we continue to tell us it is so, it will become true!

Has Badoer even retired from F1 yet?Probably!

Post by **Londoner** » 29 Oct 2011, 21:05

I don't think this one has been asked before. What if the suspension on Raikkonen's McLaren hadn't collapsed on the final lap of the 2005 European Grand Prix? Would Alonso been able to pass him, and would those 10 points have made any difference to the frankly boring title fight that we had to endure that year... (Mainly because of the uselessness of many of the componants used on the MP4-20 that year)