2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

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thehemogoblin
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by thehemogoblin »

jackanderton wrote:Very well done to Liuzzi. The only 'new' driver to jump into a car mid-season and not disappoint, so far at least. Looking at the behaviour of his car it looked very stable so I assume it wasn't a low-fuel level run.

Of course it's just practice but he should be aiming to sneak into Q3. Would it be his first ever Q3 if he managed it?


Jaime Alguersuari and Rmmmnn Grrrjnnn have both outperformed the people they replaced... I don't see how they're disappointing. Granted, Luca Badoer had enough disappointment for the lot of them.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Salamander »

I think that's Red Bull done for the championship, then.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Uh-oh. Kovy looks the best bet to win this on strategy.
But then again, we are talking about Kovy, so he will probably be dead slow.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Warren Hughes »

Sutil MUST stay ahead of Kovalainen and the Brawns in the first stint or else he won't get near the podium. Should be a really interesting race; 2-stoppers vs. 1-stoppers. I think it'll come down to a straight fight between Hamilton and the Brawns, but the start will be crucial. It'll be interesting to see whether Kovalainen can contend; a good result tomorrow could save his seat.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Paul Hayes »

That's an impressive qualifying result from the Brawns with that fuel on board, and Kovalainen looks good too. It should be a terrific race tomorrow. Throw in some rain and we could have a classic.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Debaser »

Gret race in store, its the two stopping top 3 against the 1 stoppers. I'd back Raikkonen to win, but the Brawns are a good bet, though they may be stuck behind Heikki and be too far back to win, though they should get a podium.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by muttley »

Paul Hayes wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Fabulous running by Hamilton. He was playing them, just sitting in the garage. I wonder how much fuel he's got? Good effort by Sutil as well, great running.


Jake Humphreys said after qualifying that the BBC's sources were telling them he was two-stopping. So if he wants to win, he's going to have to open up a big gap to the Brawns, and fast as he is I'm not sure he has enough pace for that.


That's when Heikki "moving chicane" Kovalainen comes in handy! :P
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Irisado »

If Sutil has any designs on victory, he has to ensure that the heavier KERS car of Kovalainen doesn't pass him on the opening lap. Kovalainen looks quite well placed to win this race in my opinion, providing he can keep up a consistent race pace.

A very impressive performance from Liuzzi in my opinion to be that close to Sutil considering he has hardly driven the Force India car this year, so they could both score tomorrow, and I hope that they do.

Not a great day for BMW with those engine failures, and that, combined with Alguesuari having to have a new gearbox fitted to his car meant that there were three mechanical failures in two sessions, a very unusual occurrence in this stagnant era of bullet proof reliability, and a refreshing change.

It could be an interesting race tomorrow, especially if the KERS cars starting in the middle of pack get off to fliers on the run down to the first chicane.....
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Nin13 »

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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by casabonka »

Sadly not looking goof for RBR
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by thehemogoblin »

casabonka wrote:Sadly not looking goof for RBR


Especially with two KERS cars behind them.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Captain Hammer »

Paul Hayes wrote:That's an impressive qualifying result from the Brawns with that fuel on board, and Kovalainen looks good too.

Button is better on a heavy fuel load. He actually goes faster than when he's a featherweight like Hamilton.

The reason is that Button has a really fluid driving style. He only ever turns in as much as he needs, and he never corrects if he can help it. It might look boring, but it certainly looks fast. The downside to this is that he's really gentle on his tryes. As he proved in Monaco, he can make the softer compound tyres last longer than anyone else. This might sound like an advantage, but the catch is that Button's driving style doesn't generate as much heat as everyone else. As the wheels are the only part of the car in contact with the road, and more fuel equals more weight, a heavier car pushes down more. This weight is what Button uses to generate the heat; the increase in weight places greater stress on the tyres, which means they heat up faster. And that's why Button utterly dominated the early season: because he could qualify faster in a heavier car, and by the time he started burning off fuel, the tyres were well and truly up to temperature. He was basically the perfect driver: he could go just as quickly when he was heavy as when he as light, and he could conserve his tyres longer than anyone else, hence why his conversion to a two-stopped in Spain worked so well. And it's also why he's going to be a force to be reckoned with in the race. He might not have KERS, but Sutil's front-row position proves that non-KERS cars can be as competitive.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Debaser »

Great stuff from Toyota, they were bored to tears and still gave us some entertainment. Underwhelming race after a great start, only Hamilton's accident livened things up. Also the safety car was the most pointless in F1 history and stopped Sutil from passing Kimi.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Henrique »

Go Brawn! 18 points! :D
Too bad about Liuzzi, he definitely did a good job. But Sutil escapes rejectdom, right? :)
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great outcome, Hamilton's crash was the cherry on top. Delighted.

Sutil no longer a reject, a great if short battle between Toyotas, Barrichello winning, Hamilton failing epically - perfect.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by CarlosFerreira »

Great showing by Hamilton, say what you may. That's what heroes are made of: try all the way to the limit and keep on trying from there on. This is a guy that will attack even when there's nothing in it.

Brilliant drive by Barrichello, Button a bit underwhelming.

Whatever you say, join me in celebrating Adrian Sutil's well-deserved escape from rejectdom! :D
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shinji
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

CarlosFerreira wrote:Great showing by Hamilton, say what you may. That's what heroes are made of: try all the way to the limit and keep on trying from there on. This is a guy that will attack even when there's nothing in it.

Brilliant drive by Barrichello, Button a bit underwhelming.

Whatever you say, join me in celebrating Adrian Sutil's well-deserved escape from rejectdom! :D


If any other driver crashed, they would be castigated. Just because it's Hamilton, it's because he was heroically pushing.

Anyway, yes let's celebrate Sutil escaping from the clutches of rejctdom!

(I need to remove him from my list! Should I make it a ceremonial occasion?)
Last edited by shinji on 13 Sep 2009, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by eytl »

My word, how quick are you guys!

Yes indeed, forget the fact that the championship has now devolved into an intra-Brawn battle, the key point to note about the Italian GP results is that Adrian Sutil has escaped reject status! :D :D :D

And, fastest lap for Sutil as well. I could be wrong, but I think that's 10 drivers who have scored FL this season, equalling the record which has happened four times before, the last time in 1982!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by rffp »

I am starting to believe it is possible although difficult. Too bad I won't be able to be in Interlagos.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by XurizManson »

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Haha! He did it again!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Jack O Malley »

Thank you Hamilton!!! Great day for Adrian! :D
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Paul Hayes »

Hurrah for Sutil, finally and deservedly escaping rejectdom, even if he did nearly blow it on that pitstop. So close to a podium... But perhaps that will come for him.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by CarlosFerreira »

shinji wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Great showing by Hamilton, say what you may. That's what heroes are made of: try all the way to the limit and keep on trying from there on. This is a guy that will attack even when there's nothing in it.

Brilliant drive by Barrichello, Button a bit underwhelming.

Whatever you say, join me in celebrating Adrian Sutil's well-deserved escape from rejectdom! :D


If any other driver crashed, they would be castigated. Just because it's Hamilton, it's because he was heroically pushing.


Not really, shinji. I'll always give it out to anyone stupidly pushing beyond the limit even when there's no chance of getting anything out of it. I've seen Rossi and Stoner doing it in MotoGP: losing safe results just because they couldn't live with settling for second. That's why I think it was heroic: F1 is a sport, and must be entertaining.

The alternative is Nick Heidfeld, who just beat his own record today: 41 races finished, but not much to show in a good part of them.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by LukeB »

Clearly Sutils cocked up pitstop was intentional. He obviously realised that Kimi can't punt him off if he stays behind him.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

CarlosFerreira wrote:
shinji wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Great showing by Hamilton, say what you may. That's what heroes are made of: try all the way to the limit and keep on trying from there on. This is a guy that will attack even when there's nothing in it.

Brilliant drive by Barrichello, Button a bit underwhelming.

Whatever you say, join me in celebrating Adrian Sutil's well-deserved escape from rejectdom! :D


If any other driver crashed, they would be castigated. Just because it's Hamilton, it's because he was heroically pushing.


Not really, shinji. I'll always give it out to anyone stupidly pushing beyond the limit even when there's no chance of getting anything out of it. I've seen Rossi and Stoner doing it in MotoGP: losing safe results just because they couldn't live with settling for second. That's why I think it was heroic: F1 is a sport, and must be entertaining.

The alternative is Nick Heidfeld, who just beat his own record today: 41 races finished, but not much to show in a good part of them.


Fair enough. I think I just misread your post, as I've been conditioned as a person who relies on the internet to discuss F1 to expect Hamilton praising when he doesn't deserve it.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by CarlosFerreira »

shinji wrote:Fair enough. I think I just misread your post, as I've been conditioned as a person who relies on the internet to discuss F1 to expect Hamilton praising when he doesn't deserve it.


No worries. I really was praising the idiot who dropped it on the last couple of corners, despite it being clear there was no reason for it.

LukeB wrote:Clearly Sutils cocked up pitstop was intentional. He obviously realised that Kimi can't punt him off if he stays behind him.


+1!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

Thought; Hamilton crashed on purpose to allow Kovalainen an extra point, so that he has a better points tally, won't get dropped, and Hamilton won't have a potentially competitve team mate in Rosberg or Raikkonen next season.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Many Blue Flags »

That's Red Bull gone, and Brawn stuck with the predicamant of letting the two Bs race each other. The only track RB could make up place is on Interlagos, and Rubens is going to be pushing extra-hard there. I'm wondering if Mark and Seb need to watch out for Kimi

Sinji: Thought; Hamilton crashed on purpose to allow Kovalainen an extra point, so that he has a better points tally, won't get dropped, and Hamilton won't have a potentially competitve team mate in Rosberg or Raikkonen next season.


No chance. Sutil will be with Hamilton next year no matter what.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Libertango »

Thank you Hamilton for letting Kimi get on the podium...and without team orders! Very generous of him.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by CarlosFerreira »

shinji wrote:Thought; Hamilton crashed on purpose to allow Kovalainen an extra point, so that he has a better points tally, won't get dropped, and Hamilton won't have a potentially competitve team mate in Rosberg or Raikkonen next season.


I'm signing up for that one. Conspiracy Theorists, Stand Up!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Waris »

Many Blue Flags wrote:No chance. Sutil will be with Hamilton next year no matter what.


I don't know quite what to read into that... XD
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Salamander »

Great to see the BRawns back at the front of the grid, even if it means Webber's championship hopes are dust. Him and Vettel'll need to start watching over his back now; Kimi looks like he might replicate Alonso from last year and pass one of the top drivers. And a big thank you to Hamilton for binning it on the last lap and allowing Sutil to escape reject status. Very nice of him. :)
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Yannick »

Congratulations to the Brawns for being back after their quasi summer break and to Sutil for now being ineligible to the site as these things are being called in f1rejects lingo.

I'm also impressed by Tonio Liuzzi's performance. Too bad that the gearbox let him down.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

The ending of the race was remarkably similar to the end of the GP2 feature race on Saturday - Johnny Cecotto Jr. (son of reject Johnny Cecotto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Cecotto) crashed on the last lap and the race ended under safety car conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTPJ0GewePs
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Jack O Malley »

Hamilton crashed deliberately to make his friend Sutil not eligible for a profile on this website!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by watka »

Johnny Cecotto (Snr) should have a profile on this site - he was no John Surtees!
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by XurizManson »

watka wrote:Johnny Cecotto (Snr) should have a profile on this site - he was no John Surtees!


So many drivers deserving a profile here. Jamie and Enoch should hire the best forumworms to update the long list of pendings.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by Salamander »

I think shinji already made the list.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by rffp »

Toyota's publicocrap of the week:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78643

It is interesting that they know why they sucked in Monza but still do not have a solid grip on why they seemed strong in Spa. If F1 Rejects ever create a "You Lucky Bastard" category they should be up on the top for senselessly wasting their money.
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Re: 2009 Italian Grand Prix Discussion

Post by shinji »

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think shinji already made the list.


Yes he did!

http://www.f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=419
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