2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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mario
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

Quick update - Autosport are reporting that Alonso's car has passed the post race technical examination, including the minimum fuel requirement for testing. Furthermore, Webber is also in the clear over what could have been a penalty for stopping to pick Alonso up (breaking the rule that requires a driver to return directly to parc ferme after the flag). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93350

However, Buemi's weekend has gone from bad to worse - Autosport are also reporting that Buemi will be hit with a five place grid penalty for the Hungarian GP after being found guilty of causing his accident with Heidfeld. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93348

[Edit]
DonTirri wrote: The hell did Macca find that pace O_o

To be more precise, where did Hamilton find that pace - Button was struggling, and although his lap times did improve during the race when he had clearer air and his fuel load had dropped, he was still several tenths off Lewis's pace (though beginning to eat into the lead that Massa and Vettel had over him). I have to say that part of the advantage might have been the lower track and ambient temperatures, as Lewis's more aggressive driving style and the tendency of the MP4-26 to work its tyres fairly hard meant that he was able to heat up his tyres more quickly, but part of it does seem to be down to Lewis simply maxing out the performance of the car, particularly in the mechanical grip dominated first and final sectors, whereas Button struggled due to balance issues.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by James1978 »

DonTirri wrote:- That's third time this season a Renault gets noticeable air, and the fact that Heidfeld was shaking his fist at Buemi WHILE still sliding in the gravel elicted a chuckle from me.


Wasn't as good as Alonso manging to do it at Ralf Schumacher in MONACO of all place in 2004! :)
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by TomPryce »

Apparently it was a stuck wheel nut that cost Massa 4th :- http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/wheel-n ... ssa-fourth
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by Shizuka »

DonTirri wrote:Too bad we're going to the worst non-tilke circuit in the calendar next... stupid Hungaroring


No offense, but we have been having rains a lot recently. And remember the only time when it rained, what happened to the race :)
(I'm not saying this because I'm Hungarian - well, actually I am - ... I admit though that most races end up boring over here.)

Code: Select all

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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by Klon »

Shizuka wrote:And remember the only time when it rained, what happened to the race :)


Jenson Button won it - doesn't make me look forward to Budapest one bit.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by Rocks with Salt »

Anyone have pictures of Webber giving Alonso a lift? That's gotta be my next avatar.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by LionZoo »

My thoughts on the race:

1. Hamilton drove a great race. I was waiting for him to destroy his tires and get passed, but he never did.
2. Alonso continued his form of driving quick, but steadily.
3. Mark Webber once again blew his start. It's amazing that he hasn't led a lap all year despite getting multiple poles. At this point, I'd say his start issues are getting to be psychological.
4. World Champions going off track seemed to be a theme today. The side of the track was vicious at the beginning of the race.
5. Jenson Button was on a nice charge before he retired.
6. Felipe Massa had a good race holding off Vettel. Shame about the wheelnut.
7. Vettel couldn't get the lead that he usually gets and later spun. One wonders whether the latter had anything to do with the former.
8. Adrian Sutil drove a great race. Good pace to make his 2 stop strategy work.
9. Nico Rosberg is rapidly becoming a qualifying specialist in my eyes. He always seems to punch above the weight of the Mercedes in qualifying, but seems to struggle in the race.
10. Michael Schumacher continues his form of struggling in qualifying and then having good race pace masked by a mistake in the race.
11. Kobayashi did another ninja drive into the points.
12. If I were a driver, Petrov would be the driver I'd least want to race with. He seemed ragged all race.
13. Because of the riveting race for the lead, we didn't get to see any of the midfield action.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by dinizintheoven »

Rocks with Salt wrote:Anyone have pictures of Webber giving Alonso a lift? That's gotta be my next avatar.

I had to download the F1 Forum - the red button wasn't working earlier - so I've ripped a few snapshots out of that. Edit these as you see fit.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/3btaqt

Ten pictures in there. Take your pick.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by FullMetalJack »

LionZoo wrote:My thoughts on the race:

1. Hamilton drove a great race. I was waiting for him to destroy his tires and get passed, but he never did.
2. Alonso continued his form of driving quick, but steadily.
3. Mark Webber once again blew his start. It's amazing that he hasn't led a lap all year despite getting multiple poles. At this point, I'd say his start issues are getting to be psychological.
4. World Champions going off track seemed to be a theme today. The side of the track was vicious at the beginning of the race.
5. Jenson Button was on a nice charge before he retired.
6. Felipe Massa had a good race holding off Vettel. Shame about the wheelnut.
7. Vettel couldn't get the lead that he usually gets and later spun. One wonders whether the latter had anything to do with the former.
8. Adrian Sutil drove a great race. Good pace to make his 2 stop strategy work.
9. Nico Rosberg is rapidly becoming a qualifying specialist in my eyes. He always seems to punch above the weight of the Mercedes in qualifying, but seems to struggle in the race.
10. Michael Schumacher continues his form of struggling in qualifying and then having good race pace masked by a mistake in the race.
11. Kobayashi did another ninja drive into the points.
12. If I were a driver, Petrov would be the driver I'd least want to race with. He seemed ragged all race.
13. Because of the riveting race for the lead, we didn't get to see any of the midfield action.


Great summary, to be honest, about point 13, it's a change because the fight for the lead was actually interesting.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by Pepsibottle1 »

Good race in general, pretty interesting there at the end between Alonso and Hammy. Where did that pace come from? Clutch driving from Lewis to take the win. I was hoping for a massive downpour in the last 10 laps just to make things interesting.

Poor Massa. What a drive by him to keep Vettel at bay only to lose it in the pits. He needs more drives like this.

Kobayashi puts in another stunning drive to earn another top ten for Sauber. This young man has a bright future ahead of him, and if he can pull together a decent qualifying effort, I'm sure that he can mix it up with Ferrari and Mercedes. The car is fast and Kobe has shown that he can race with the best of them.

Shoutout to Sutil for his 6th place finish. Force India is capable of doing this every race.

Karun Chankok for reject of the race. What a Deletraz like preformance. Who is he and how did he even get the seat? Dreadfully slow! He made the HRT's look fast!
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by Peter »

He wasn't slow. He just made a few mistakes, his strategy was crap, his car is quite unreliable. I think at least 2 of those things were why he did so poorly this race.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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As a Force India fan, I was delighted with Sutil's race. He managed to make the 2-stop strategy work
very well. As for Di Resta, kicking up about Hulkenberg running his car in Friday isn't going to boost team
morale at all. And although he recovered to finish 12th, it was still another average performance.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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The thing about Di Resta is for all that he has a good qualifying record against his teammate, at the end of the day it is Sutil who is bringing the results in and has put the vast majority of the team's points on the board. It's a bit like Jacques Villeneuve was against Heidfeld at BMW in 2006, and look what happened there.....
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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James1978 wrote:The thing about Di Resta is for all that he has a good qualifying record against his teammate, at the end of the day it is Sutil who is bringing the results in and has put the vast majority of the team's points on the board. It's a bit like Jacques Villeneuve was against Heidfeld at BMW in 2006, and look what happened there.....


Ironically it was the first time since 2000 where the Canadian didn't really deserve the sack.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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mario wrote:To be more precise, where did Hamilton find that pace - Button was struggling, and although his lap times did improve during the race when he had clearer air and his fuel load had dropped, he was still several tenths off Lewis's pace (though beginning to eat into the lead that Massa and Vettel had over him). I have to say that part of the advantage might have been the lower track and ambient temperatures, as Lewis's more aggressive driving style and the tendency of the MP4-26 to work its tyres fairly hard meant that he was able to heat up his tyres more quickly, but part of it does seem to be down to Lewis simply maxing out the performance of the car, particularly in the mechanical grip dominated first and final sectors, whereas Button struggled due to balance issues.


Or maybe the car has improved and Button is just slower. Button only seems to finish ahead of Hamilton if the latter incurs in a strategy mistake or a blunder of any kind. Maybe this was a great race for Hamilton, while Button just had a normal race. That might explain the difference between the two. Add to that Button's traditional weakness in qualifying (which looks to be more acute in could conditions) and you have Hamilton ahead of Button somewhat easily and why both of them look like best pals. In the seven races this year that both finished, Hamilton is in front 5-2, having won last year 10-3...
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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DanielPT wrote:
mario wrote:To be more precise, where did Hamilton find that pace - Button was struggling, and although his lap times did improve during the race when he had clearer air and his fuel load had dropped, he was still several tenths off Lewis's pace (though beginning to eat into the lead that Massa and Vettel had over him). I have to say that part of the advantage might have been the lower track and ambient temperatures, as Lewis's more aggressive driving style and the tendency of the MP4-26 to work its tyres fairly hard meant that he was able to heat up his tyres more quickly, but part of it does seem to be down to Lewis simply maxing out the performance of the car, particularly in the mechanical grip dominated first and final sectors, whereas Button struggled due to balance issues.


Or maybe the car has improved and Button is just slower. Button only seems to finish ahead of Hamilton if the latter incurs in a strategy mistake or a blunder of any kind. Maybe this was a great race for Hamilton, while Button just had a normal race. That might explain the difference between the two. Add to that Button's traditional weakness in qualifying (which looks to be more acute in could conditions) and you have Hamilton ahead of Button somewhat easily and why both of them look like best pals. In the seven races this year that both finished, Hamilton is in front 5-2, having won last year 10-3...

True, there is the aspect that Button is generally a touch slower over a lap, although to be honest Button seemed a lot more out of sorts over the course of the race weekend. Overall, it is kind of hard to pin down exactly where the MP4-26 stands, though, judging by the fact that Hamilton and Button were generally much quicker in the first and last parts of the lap, and slower in the more aero biased middle sector, I would expect McLaren could potentially slip behind Ferrari for Hungary. The car has improved, but the conditions and track nature did also partially play into the hands of McLaren, so they might fall back a touch in Hungary if the weather conditions are quite hot.

Onto another topic - Williams have revealed that they decided to run a back to back test on their KERS during the German GP race weekend, with KERS removed from Barrichello's car but left on Maldonado's car.
It seems that, since Cosworth are not developing retarded ignition maps, Williams have been struggling with rear instability under braking, as well as higher rear tyre wear - so, they decided to remove the KERS from Rubens's car to see what effect it would have on his tyre wear and braking system in the race.
"We have had doubts over KERS in the past with controlling the brake balance under braking, where you end up with quite a difficult situation.

"We always felt in the past that the few times in races where we have turned it off, it has actually been better on rear tyre degradation. There is no doubt in qualifying that it is better because it gives you three and a half tenths because you can go out and we don't have to charge KERS for qualifying."

"We could use a lot of the ignition firing to control the braking and it was much better, but we cannot do both, the engine is not capable of doing that.

"So we cannot have 100 per cent blowing and ignition firing, as we can't do the ignition retarding that other teams do. So we can stop the blowing under braking and control the brake balance, or we can do the opposite. It is a bit tricky for us."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93381

However, the indication is that Williams will be fitting KERS onto Rubens's car for Hungary, suggesting that the outcome of their testing in Germany wasn't entirely favourable.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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Considering what Chandhok did against Kovalainen, it really doesn't look good for Senna, who was, at best, equally as impressive as Chandhok in 2010. Hopefully Renault see the errors of their ways and put Rrrrrromman Grrrrosjean in the car for FP1 one weekend.

Also, Trulli must be smiling somewhere, as if he can put in some decent drives with the new steering coming up, he might just escape the chopping block for another year.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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Ed24 wrote:Considering what Chandhok did against Kovalainen, it really doesn't look good for Senna, who was, at best, equally as impressive as Chandhok in 2010. Hopefully Renault see the errors of their ways and put Rrrrrromman Grrrrosjean in the car for FP1 one weekend.

Also, Trulli must be smiling somewhere, as if he can put in some decent drives with the new steering coming up, he might just escape the chopping block for another year.


Bruno outqualified Chandhok almost all the time. He'll do a fine job, he did a great job testing off season, only a second off Heidfield, without even using the soft tyres that day. No matter how good Rrrrrrrrrmmmmn Grrrrrrrsjjjn does in GP2, it'll still be lingering in Renault's heads that this guy drove for us already, and didn't do much of a better job than the driver he replaced did. I don't see Roman driving for them unless Kubica can't race next year, Renault don't want Heidfield, AND Senna doesn't do well in testing. Roman should try and get a race seat at another team, because his spot at Renault would be temporary, if he gets lucky and gets to drive for themenxt year, as they will drop him as soon as Kubica is fit to race.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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Autosport.com has a "Behind the Scenes" article after each race, and the following story from the Nurburgring amused me.

Autosport.com wrote:The best Nordschleife story of the weekend came from Kamui Kobayashi, who always makes the trek out onto the track whenever he is racing there.

This time, however, for a special treat for his girlfriend Yu he wanted to give her a high-speed lap of the Nordschleife – and it was going to be the first time she had ever been a passenger alongside him out on a race circuit. Kamui duly paid for four laps – but it didn't go quite to plan.

"We got out on to the track and after one corner she started crying," said Kobayashi. "I had to slow down and finish the lap very slow – about 60km/h. Very safe – but it was a very long lap. It took me nearly 20 minutes.

"I think I will have to sell my tickets at a discount price now. I paid 89 Euros for four laps – and only went around once!"

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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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dr-baker wrote:Autosport.com has a "Behind the Scenes" article after each race, and the following story from the Nurburgring amused me.

Autosport.com wrote:The best Nordschleife story of the weekend came from Kamui Kobayashi, who always makes the trek out onto the track whenever he is racing there.

This time, however, for a special treat for his girlfriend Yu he wanted to give her a high-speed lap of the Nordschleife – and it was going to be the first time she had ever been a passenger alongside him out on a race circuit. Kamui duly paid for four laps – but it didn't go quite to plan.

"We got out on to the track and after one corner she started crying," said Kobayashi. "I had to slow down and finish the lap very slow – about 60km/h. Very safe – but it was a very long lap. It took me nearly 20 minutes.

"I think I will have to sell my tickets at a discount price now. I paid 89 Euros for four laps – and only went around once!"



Kamui is such a great guy. And fast too. I hope he can be given a better drive somewhere...
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

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dr-baker wrote:Autosport.com has a "Behind the Scenes" article after each race, and the following story from the Nurburgring amused me.

Autosport.com wrote:The best Nordschleife story of the weekend came from Kamui Kobayashi, who always makes the trek out onto the track whenever he is racing there.

This time, however, for a special treat for his girlfriend Yu he wanted to give her a high-speed lap of the Nordschleife – and it was going to be the first time she had ever been a passenger alongside him out on a race circuit. Kamui duly paid for four laps – but it didn't go quite to plan.

"We got out on to the track and after one corner she started crying," said Kobayashi. "I had to slow down and finish the lap very slow – about 60km/h. Very safe – but it was a very long lap. It took me nearly 20 minutes.

"I think I will have to sell my tickets at a discount price now. I paid 89 Euros for four laps – and only went around once!"



This, for better or for worse, reminds me of all of those YouTube videos with screaming passengers alongside racing drivers. Considering how fast we've seen Kobayashi on the safe tracks of Formula One going, I can only imagine that being on the Nordschleife would be terrifying for the uninitiated.
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Re: 2011 German Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by WeirdKerr »

RAK wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Autosport.com has a "Behind the Scenes" article after each race, and the following story from the Nurburgring amused me.

Autosport.com wrote:The best Nordschleife story of the weekend came from Kamui Kobayashi, who always makes the trek out onto the track whenever he is racing there.

This time, however, for a special treat for his girlfriend Yu he wanted to give her a high-speed lap of the Nordschleife – and it was going to be the first time she had ever been a passenger alongside him out on a race circuit. Kamui duly paid for four laps – but it didn't go quite to plan.

"We got out on to the track and after one corner she started crying," said Kobayashi. "I had to slow down and finish the lap very slow – about 60km/h. Very safe – but it was a very long lap. It took me nearly 20 minutes.

"I think I will have to sell my tickets at a discount price now. I paid 89 Euros for four laps – and only went around once!"



This, for better or for worse, reminds me of all of those YouTube videos with screaming passengers alongside racing drivers. Considering how fast we've seen Kobayashi on the safe tracks of Formula One going, I can only imagine that being on the Nordschleife would be terrifying for the uninitiated.



http://youtu.be/bpo8RDyOEWY this is the most famous.....
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