Your Reject of the Race - Belgium!

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:56

Jarno Trulli, after qualifying second he ran behind Badoer until retiring. Pretty reject-worthy.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:56

The Red Bull mechanics. Another error, again with their best-placed driver in the World Championship. When the bloody hell did RBR buy Ferrari's lollipop man from 2008?

Some serious management options must be exercised in that pit wall: it's time Christian Horner kicked someone's head in! :evil:

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:57

Renault definetly. Performance-wise, that Grosjean guy looks like Nelson Piquet's half-brother... :mrgreen:

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:59

My Reject of the Race: Kimi haters.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:41

Many Blue Flags wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Actually, I'm changing my mind again. My Reject of the Race for Belgium is The Championship Quartet. Pretty much all four of them have blown it at some point or another, be itButton's poor qualifying, Barrichello stalling at the start again, Webber's unsafe release and drive-through or Vettel's nothin race.

Except for Vettel's third place from eighth on the grid. I'm going here with Renault, for the reasons both Alonso's pit crew and Grosjean are mentioned above. Plus, Alonso's inability to get into Q3 yesterday.

I actually wrote that halfway through the telecast, shortly after Renault retired (Australia gets delayed coverage). But Vettel's podium makes things harder for Red Bull, because while hehas more points than Webber, Webber has more engines. And with Force India and BMW undergoing a renaissance with this race, if Red Bull can't get a decent result at Monza - Brawn territory with its fast straights broken up by stop/start chicanes - they're not going to get any result.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:43

Jonathan Legard
Jaime Alguesari
Roman Grosjean
Luca Badoer

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:54

Dishonourable mention also goes to the Australian commentators (again) who cut to a commercal break at an inopportune moment. They like to bookend each section bewtee ad breaks with their own (very misinformed) thoughts and sentiments, the end result being that we missed Lousie Goodman talking to Jenson Button after the accident.

Funnily enough, they had problems pronouncing some of the drivers' names - "Najakima" and "Fischelli" stood out in particular - but they had no problem with "JAime Alguersuari" ...

watka · Post by **watka** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:59

Ben Gilbert wrote:
Kimi Raikkonen

A controversial one I know, but hear me out. Yes he won the race, but to my mind he shouldn't have. Notice that on the first lap, he ran straight off onto the run-of areas, kept his foot hard downand leapt into second, thus alowing him to overtake Fisi at the restart via KERS. Since when was it legal to go off track and gain an advantage? He should have been penalised for that at the very least. Then, still on the opening lap, he runs off at Les Combes, and re-joins slamming into a BMW, and causing the chain-reaction that took off Button, Alguersuari, Hamilton and Grosjean, and doesn't get damaged.

That said, he did drive brilliantly afterwards to retain the lead despite a bungled pitstop and Fisi hounding him, so he probably deserved a podium place. However, I don't believe he deserved the win as it came from the result of a cheat, which put him in the position to take it, and ruined the Force Fairytale again. A minor gripe I know, they did get points, but who didn't want to see Force India win?

+1, exactly the point I was going to make. It's frequent that cars run wide at La Source on the first lap, but Kimi got really good drive by going wide. OK, it's not 100% clear whether he picked up any spots immediately from it, but it certainly helped him all the way down to Les Combes. At another track, it would have warranted investigation.

Then of course, he indirectly caused the pile up at Les Combes, which of course gave him the opportunity to nick Fisi on the restart and basically win the race solely due to KERS. KERS should be something that all the teams have, or none of them should have it IMO.

My view is clearly twisted by the bitterness I feel on behalf of Fisichella, so my actual ROTR nomination is Renault. Alonso ran over Sutil's wing and destroyed his wheel spinner, and Grosjean had a Piquet-esque qualifying plus a Piquet-esque crash with Button. And he didn't even look sorry about it; Alguersuari looked a bit miserable watching the race from the pitwall whilst Grosjean was laughing and joking around.

Honourable mention for Toyota, they either qualify well and completely balls up the race, or start from the back and somehow get some points. Why can't they get both right. PS - I don't know if this is true (needs some research) but I'm guessing that Toyota are the team with the most fastest laps without a race win. (Edit: they share the records with Surtees - 3 fastest laps, no wins)

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:13

Jarno Trulli team-radio: "-It's impossible, leave it, I can pass Badoer despite being geriatrically slow, I can't, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty rejectish I'd say...

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:14

Raikkonen might well have done all that but to say he's reject of the race is ludicrous.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:16

Phoenix wrote:Jarno Trulli team-radio: "-It's impossible, leave it, I can pass Badoer despite being geriatrically slow, I can't, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty rejectish I'd say...

Oh, yeah... not being able to pass Badoer... how much reject can you really get? :mrgreen:

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:21

MY reject of the race?

Everyone who say Räikkönen is a hasbeen and should retire from formula 1(in the various forms of the statement)

I mean, how can you people can still keep bashing him despite the fact that this so called Demotivated Hasbeen took a WIN in a car that hasnt seen any... I REPEAT ANY development since the hungarian GP.

But alas, of course there will be those who just want to bash him cause it's "in".

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:32

My reject of the race nomination is wheel fairings.
They ruined Alonso's race, again, they seem to just be unsafe and annoy me more all the time. They really should just go for 2010.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:43

Waris wrote:My reject of the race nomination is wheel fairings.
They ruined Alonso's race, again, they seem to just be unsafe and annoy me more all the time. They really should just go for 2010.

I think they're going to be banned for 2010.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:48

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Waris wrote:My reject of the race nomination is wheel fairings.
They ruined Alonso's race, again, they seem to just be unsafe and annoy me more all the time. They really should just go for 2010.

I think they're going to be banned for 2010.

That would be a wise decision.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:50

My ROTR is:

F1 Regulations

Fisi was faster than Kimi all race, and the only reason he couldn't pass was because of the rubbish aero regulations, which make it impossible to overtake without a magic button. That cost him a win he deserved.

And another nomination for Jenson Button for a reject-esque performance all weekend. Crap Quali, accident on first lap.

Infact, I nominate the Brawn GP team too. They are blaming this poor performances on tyre issues again...I'm sorry Ross, I believed you the first time, but you are just making excuses for being shite now.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 30 Aug 2009, 16:44

Hi!
My ROTRs is:

Toyota refueling guy: Destroyed Glock racing and missed with Trulli too.

Jenson Button: Only 14th in qualify and crashed in first lap.

Romain Grosjean: Only 19th in qualify, fought Button and caused the pile-up in Start.

Luca Badoer: Obvious, F1 Rejects Hero!

Kazuki Nakagima: Another crap race.

Brawn GP Gearbox: bathplug rubens race again (3rd Time)

alvaro3d · Post by **alvaro3d** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:17

It must be Kimi, I know that Force India scored a nice second place but they deserved victory.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:44

KERS For ruining what would be a most well deserved and rather unlikely victory for Force India, because if kers wasnt fitted to the car raikonnen would not have been the winner.....

Post by **Nuppiz** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:51

Renault: Grosjean causing the first-lap pileup, Alonso for clashing with Sutil, damaging Sutil's front wing and points-scoring chances and jamming his own wheel cover, and the team for still sticking with that dustbin cover after already having ruined one race because of it.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:55

Waris wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Waris wrote:My reject of the race nomination is wheel fairings.
They ruined Alonso's race, again, they seem to just be unsafe and annoy me more all the time. They really should just go for 2010.

I think they're going to be banned for 2010.

That would be a wise decision.

They are, according to Radio 5 Live. I hope KERS stays though, it adds another edge to the cars overall. Just because some of the more loved drivers don't have it and it's the big teams that do somehow makes it evil - I fail to see the logic. Fezza and Macca have paid good money and paid the weight penalty in qualifying to have the boost buttons, and if their drivers can win the race thanks to them I say all the better.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 30 Aug 2009, 18:01

I think those of you blaming Button for crashing out on the first lap are all being rather unfair! Yes it was because of his poor qualifying performance, but you can hardly blame him for being nerfed from behind by Trulli! And who's to say that if he'd been at the front Heidfeld or someone wouldn't have done the same, as he almost did to Raikkonen?

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 30 Aug 2009, 18:08

WeirdKerr wrote:KERS For ruining what would be a most well deserved and rather unlikely victory for Force India, because if kers wasnt fitted to the car raikonnen would not have been the winner.....

Sorry but this is too much. If there was no KERS, Ferarri would not have lost time developping it and would have a better -if not the best- car. Seeing the teams that have played the game and tried to make a consistent KERS finally getting rewarded this season is just FAIR to me.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 18:30

Libertango wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:KERS For ruining what would be a most well deserved and rather unlikely victory for Force India, because if kers wasnt fitted to the car raikonnen would not have been the winner.....

Sorry but this is too much. If there was no KERS, Ferarri would not have lost time developping it and would have a better -if not the best- car. Seeing the teams that have played the game and tried to make a consistent KERS finally getting rewarded this season is just FAIR to me.

As I usually say in these situations...
...
Bingo! Somebody give that man a beer.

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 30 Aug 2009, 18:46

For the 2nd race in a row Badoer was ROTR in my opinion. He is, and always was, utterly rubbish.

Was quite funny watching Martin Brundle commentating on one of his qually laps: "Breaked to early, locked up, missed the apex, late on the throttle..." He was not impressed.

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:54

Badoer hasn't always been utter rubbish in my view. Please go back and read his through his career on this site and educate yourself with his results. He is much better than a lot of other drivers who have driven in F1, as you can see on the F1 Rejects site.

As for my reject of the race award, I too felt the commentary was poor. Jonathan Legard has been a big disappointment this year, and he doesn't have a good rapport with Martin Brundle in my opinion. His awareness of how a race unfolds is also poor in my view. I never thought I would say bring back James Allen, but I am!

Other possible candidates include those wretched wheel spinners, and the stewards.

The stewards, why I hear you ask? For letting Raikkonen get away with deliberately driving off the track at the start and gaining an advantage. I agree with earlier comments about this. Remember, he had all four wheels off the track, and he gained an advantage from doing so by missing the congestion at the first corner, which is not supposed to be allowed. A driver who did that a chicane would be told to give back the places he gained (like Button in Valencia), and the same principal should have applied here. Not a good day for the stewards at all in that respect in my opinion, and I think they were caught half asleep.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:55

Keep the stewards out of this. We've had of stewards in Belgium last year. A good steward is a silent steward.

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 30 Aug 2009, 21:08

CarlosFerreira wrote:Keep the stewards out of this. We've had of stewards in Belgium last year. A good steward is a silent steward.

We need them to do a job when the rules are actually broken. To my mind they were in this case, so why not let them to do their job? They came to the right decision about the Webber incident in the pits and the first lap pile up after all, so they can be effective.

crazydude1992 · Post by **crazydude1992** » 30 Aug 2009, 21:24

Irisado wrote:Badoer hasn't always been utter rubbish in my view. Please go back and read his through his career on this site and educate yourself with his results. He is much better than a lot of other drivers who have driven in F1, as you can see on the F1 Rejects site.

Yeah, but even Schu would suck if he hadnt raced for 10 years...Not to mention Luca now holds the dishonour of being the only Ferrari driver to have qualified last, and did it twice...

Ben Gilbert · Post by **Ben Gilbert** » 30 Aug 2009, 21:35

crazydude1992 wrote:
Irisado wrote:Badoer hasn't always been utter rubbish in my view. Please go back and read his through his career on this site and educate yourself with his results. He is much better than a lot of other drivers who have driven in F1, as you can see on the F1 Rejects site.

Yeah, but even Schu would suck if he hadnt raced for 10 years...Not to mention Luca now holds the dishonour of being the only Ferrari driver to have qualified last, and did it twice...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Canadian_Grand_Prix

I think that this is worse than Luca's performance: Scheckter DNQed his Ferrari.

More examples of Ferrari DNQs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Monaco_Grand_Prix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Monaco_Grand_Prix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Monaco_Grand_Prix

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 30 Aug 2009, 21:40

Yup, Luca was always rubbish. There are quite a few drivers who were excellent in the lower formulae who couldn't cut it in F1. Luca was one of them. He came relatively close to coming 4th, once in a race with heavy attrition. WOW!

On the other hand there are some drivers who were pretty shite in the lower formula who went on to become all time greats!

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 30 Aug 2009, 22:12

JDOD wrote:Yup, Luca was always rubbish. There are quite a few drivers who were excellent in the lower formulae who couldn't cut it in F1. Luca was one of them. He came relatively close to coming 4th, once in a race with heavy attrition. WOW!

Nurburgring 1999 was not a race of exceptionally heavy attrition. Badoer was fourth on merit ahead of Hakkinen and Irvine, the two title protagonists let's not forget, having made the right tyre choices and driven quickly in the Minardi. Let's also not forget that he was fourth out of eleven or twelve runners at the time he retired, so his progression was not solely down to attrition. I think you need to check your facts.

Also, he was much faster than a lot of the other drivers on this very site, if you take the time to look, wouldn't have been employed at all by Ferrari if they thought he was a no hoper, and has been consistently praised by Schumacher for his development work. Hardly the CV of a no-hoper I'm afraid, so your prejudices are not supported by the evidence in my view.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 30 Aug 2009, 22:12

Most of it has been said:-

1. The stewards, for nor penalising Kimi for running way off the track at the first corner and thereby gaining a huge advantage. Compare with the treatment of the blessed Lewis last year. It may not be a chicane but if you go completely off the track as means of overtaking, surely that is out of order. (That said, Kimi drove a su[perb race, its not his fault if the stewards are idiots.)

2. KERS:- The whole idea of having two completely different types of car in one race, such that the race can be decided by pushing a go-faster button after the safety car period. And it deprived us of a real Ferrari-Force India battle. (Isn't it strange that at the start of the season, Ferrari and Force India were battling for last place onmerit, and now they are battling for first place on merit. What's going on?)

3. Rubens, for again forgetting how to start a race, and missing his best chance of going for the championship.

minrdi · Post by **minrdi** » 30 Aug 2009, 22:58

Ross Prawn wrote:1. The stewards, for nor penalising Kimi for running way off the track at the first corner and thereby gaining a huge advantage ... It may not be a chicane but if you go completely off the track as means of overtaking, surely that is out of order. (That said, Kimi drove a su[perb race, its not his fault if the stewards are idiots.)

I must be the only person who didn't find fault with Kimi at the first corner. He had to run wide because the BMWs and Trulli came together and he'd have had nowehere to go. If he made the decision to plant the throttle and get around the incident (vaulting a few places), then he's the smart one. La Source inevitably creates mayhem on the opening lap and when you're starting on the outside line heading into what is essentially a hairpin, the available run-off will be used if the inside line gets blocked. If the other teams didn't have the sense to complain to the FIA stewards about his lap one move, then they're the bigger fools.

Keep in mind that the run-off of Turn 1 used to form part of the actual racing circuit right up to the barriers until they pulled the track width back. I remember that Turn 1 of the A1-Ring had its run-off extended to asphalt and astroturf for the 2003 race, and not a single driver used the actual circuit during the weekend, as the wide trajectory incorporating the run-off was much quicker...

Ross Prawn wrote:Compare with the treatment of the blessed Lewis last year.

Lewis' penalty in Fuji was for forcing other drivers off the road and was completely different.

As for my ROTR nomination...

Badoer had another shocker and again proved that years of testing does not do anything for racecraft, and he again looked completely out of his depth. I agree he IS a talented driver with an impressive CV, but he is not a great driver by any means and shouldn't be on the grid in Monza by virtue of his two race weekends. What I did find interesting was that he was some 10km/h quicker than anyone else in the speed trap, which would indicate that his set-up was geared much more heavily to a low-drag spec than the other cars (presumably to make him difficult to pass?). If you trim the rear wing or lengthen the gear ratios, the trade-off is poorer traction and braking than those with shorter ratios and more wing - I found it an interesting set-up choice relative to other drivers...

Barrichello's start line system has now failed him for the third race this year, and cost him valuable positions. Button, Nakajima and Grosjean were equally anonymous. The wheel fairings should again get a mention for being a risk and an eyesore and I'm delighted they're being banned for next year - it's quite likely that Alonso's stop would have gone more smoothly were his car not not equipped with them.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 Aug 2009, 23:21

In the face of Rejectful performances by the Championship Quartet, Romain Grosjean has decided he wants the title by claiming Button too him out, not the other way around.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 30 Aug 2009, 23:21

crazydude1992 wrote:...Not to mention Luca now holds the dishonour of being the only Ferrari driver to have qualified last, and did it twice...

Yeah, that's too funny!!! :mrgreen:

and perfect...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 31 Aug 2009, 04:22

Brawn. A weekend of fail.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 31 Aug 2009, 05:02

This was an exciting race, and as exciting races go, the more exciting itwas, the more difficult it is to pick the ROTR winner, because the more interesting candidates for the award usually provide lots of the excitement.
"Rookie error" got a big chance of getting it because of the 1st lap melee, where the points leader and the reigning champion both got taken out by a rookie.
But really, the most boring of candidates would be Trulli again who despite starting from the front row for the first time this season, was absolutely nowhere a/k/a stuck behind Badoer for most of the time with an ill-handling Toyota until he retired.
Barrichello's engine luckily did last until the end. And as far as the championship goes, the unsafe release of Mark Webber must have hurt his title bid a lot.
Renault, who had a super stinker double nonfinisher, were too exciting even to have been given the award.
And Luca Badoer did show serious signs of improvement, even though he still came in last. He holds the lap record for Monza in an F1 car, so Ferrari really ought to keep him on for the next race and give him a chance to announce his retirement with dignity after the Italian GP, if they really feel they would need to replace him.

So my vote goes to Trulli yet again.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 31 Aug 2009, 05:06

The thing is, Trulli got cut off by Raikonnen, and he never had a prayer against that... I can't really punish him for that.

ZsoltForever · Post by **ZsoltForever** » 31 Aug 2009, 07:02

Another vote for KERS. Fisichella seemed to feel robbed in the unilateral press conference because of KERS ... and rightly so.

In American racing, the cousin of KERS is push-to-pass, formerly used in Champ Car, and recently added to the IRL.

It's nickname is push-to-not-get-passed, or in extreme cases, push-to-block. KERS is the F1 equivalent. It's stupid, good riddance in the future.

Red Bull gets second on my reject podium for that immensely dangerous pit release with Webber, who also drove like a damn fool on his out lap.

Badoer gets third, because, well, because he's Badoer. Though I will admit it's no mean feat to bring Minardi home in 15th (or wherever he ended up). I still like Minardi's new red livery though.

Honorable mention to Renault for their chronic wheel issues.