Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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mario
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by mario »

Turbogirl wrote:Since Aerospeed has already mentioned the Tyrrell P34 and its problem, that the tyre manufacturers were unwilling to produce special tyres for it, here are two versions, that might have worked better, because they used standard tyres instead of smaller ones like Tyrrell did. One is the Williams FW07D, the other one the March 2-4-1. But both were banned along with the six-wheeled Tyrrell, before they could be tested properly. But I remember having read an article, in which Patrick Head stated, the Williams six-wheeler was slightly better than its four-wheeled counterpart, but only slightly.

Image

In the case of the FW07D test hack, I believe that the major problem was that the rearmost suspension arms compromised the design of the underbody of the car, compromising the aerodynamics of the car. The development version that would have become the FW08B was intended to rectify that issue, but in the end, as you say, the team decided that it wasn't worth pouring so many resources into a car that could only be used for the tail end of the 1982 season (the 1983 rules specified that only four wheels were allowed) when the conventional FW08 was already sufficiently competitive enough.

Thinking about some more modern controversies, the tricks with aero elasticity on some cars would definitely be another issue. We saw a very fierce debate over the flexibility of Red Bull's front wings a few years ago, but we also had the flexing "over the nose" wings on the McLaren and Williams cars in 2008 (where both teams had to add a little stay to fend off complaints of excessive deflection under load). There were also, IIRC, a few debates over the design of the front wing mount on McLaren's car a few years ago too which allowed it to rotate under load to reduce the wing angle, and therefore drag, at high speed, something I believe Whiting wasn't happy about.
IIRC, there were also a few complaints about excessive flexing of the rear wing of the RB4 at speed - it wasn't the first time that there were complaints about excessive deflection of a Newey designed rear wing, since there were a few rumours kicking about in 2004, IIRC, that suggested Kimi's rear wing failure in the German GP was because Newey had designed the rear wing to flex at speed to shed drag but hadn't quite perfected the design.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Turbogirl »

Here is one car I almost forgot it existed. The Brabham BT23C. It's definitely not the most controversial design I've ever seen, nor was it really an F1 design (Brabham tested this one for F2, if I remember correctly). But still, mounting an empty bookshelf on top of your car is innovative in every sense of the word. :lol:

Image

P.S.: Hadn't all these weird wing designs been banned by the FIA, I'm pretty sure this one would have made into F1 eventually.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Turbogirl wrote:And it doesn't stop there! Alfa Romeo had developed the T33/6/12 for the 12 hours of Sebring in 1970.

Image


You do know that this was an April Fools' Day story, right?
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Faustus wrote:
Turbogirl wrote:And it doesn't stop there! Alfa Romeo had developed the T33/6/12 for the 12 hours of Sebring in 1970.

Image


You do know that this was an April Fools' Day story, right?


This is my favorite part from this website.
http://www.sportscardigest.com/alfa-rom ... r-profile/

The six-wheel Alfa Romeo T33 project was cancelled abruptly after teens from a local high school snuck onto the raceway at night and stole the car from its hanger/garage. The chassis was found two weeks later in a nearby orange grove minus the engine.

For several years after this incident rumors circulated about a V12 hot rod that was blowing away all comers in the Sebring area.

:lol:
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Faustus wrote:
Turbogirl wrote:stuff

You do know that this was an April Fools' Day story, right?

And you do realise that Turbogirl has not been on this forum since 12th June? :cry: That's over 4 months!
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by mario »

dr-baker wrote:
Faustus wrote:
Turbogirl wrote:stuff

You do know that this was an April Fools' Day story, right?

And you do realise that Turbogirl has not been on this forum since 12th June? :cry: That's over 4 months!

It'd be a shame if Turbogirl has left - let us hope that it is just a temporary hiatus.

Actually, ironically that hoax story about that T33 does remind me of a real life controversy that Alfa Romeo were involved in which did centre around the T33. If I recall well, was there not a complaint in the sportscar racing world that Alfa Romeo were abusing the regulations on fuel cooling? I believe that the rules of the time allowed for the fuel to be cooled before it was pumped into the tank - Alfa Romeo's response was to cool the fuel down using 'dry ice', which went far beyond what the organisers had envisaged.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Pepsibottle1 »

I don't know whether one would label it an innovation of sorts but Tyrrell's skirt with the rules in 84 in regards to weight was controversial for sure.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Pepsibottle1 wrote:I don't know whether one would label it an innovation of sorts but Tyrrell's skirt with the rules blantantly illegal car in 84 in regards to weight which ran underweight and with illegal fuel was controversial for sure.


Fixed
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by roblo97 »

Wallio wrote:
Pepsibottle1 wrote:I don't know whether one would label it an innovation of sorts but Tyrrell's skirt with the rules blantantly illegal car in 84 in regards to weight which ran underweight and with illegal fuel was controversial for sure.


Fixed

To be fair to them though, they had to do something to keep pace with the turbo cars of everyone else :lol:
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shinji wrote:
Mexicola wrote: I'd rather listen to a dog lick its balls. Each to their own, I guess.

Does listening to a dog licking its balls get you excited?

That's between me and my internet service provider.

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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Wallio »

roblomas52 wrote:
Wallio wrote:
Pepsibottle1 wrote:I don't know whether one would label it an innovation of sorts but Tyrrell's skirt with the rules blantantly illegal car in 84 in regards to weight which ran underweight and with illegal fuel was controversial for sure.


Fixed

To be fair to them though, they had to do something to keep pace with the turbo cars of everyone else :lol:



True. I'm just bitter because it sort of taints Bellofs performances. Which is a damn shame.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by roblo97 »

Wallio wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:To be fair to them though, they had to do something to keep pace with the turbo cars of everyone else :lol:



True. I'm just bitter because it sort of taints Bellofs performances. Which is a damn shame.

Bellof and Brundle were the only drivers that year to take Eau Rouge flat due to the power defect they had on the rocket-ship turbos. would have really struggled at Monza and Hockenheim regardless though.
Mexicola wrote:
shinji wrote:
Mexicola wrote: I'd rather listen to a dog lick its balls. Each to their own, I guess.

Does listening to a dog licking its balls get you excited?

That's between me and my internet service provider.

One of those journalist types.
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Julien
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Julien »

It was never confirmed that Tyrrell would have cheated with the weight. In fact, Tom Prankerd's thorough analysis shows that the cars were constantly running on a similar pace making any accusation's credibility about cheating is at least doubtful.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Julien wrote:It was never confirmed that Tyrrell would have cheated with the weight. In fact, Tom Prankerd's thorough analysis shows that the cars were constantly running on a similar pace making any accusation's credibility about cheating is at least doubtful.


Thanks for the link, an interesting read. I think as is the case with any minor rule break in recent years the team in question is seriously criticised by all the other teams regardless of the performance boost it gives. A rule break is a rule break however and Tyrrell weren't exactly repentant about what they were doing.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Wallio »

Also in addition to being underweight, Tyrrell was running movable ballast (The infamous balls) and had holes punched in the flat floor both illegal. Plus they were running leaded fuel, also illegal. 8w has a great article about it.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Turbogirl wrote:Image

Image



As far as i know, it also had no brake pedal; the whole concept was that the steering wheel was to be pushed in order to brake! What a mess, isn't it?
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Ah, the Earth Car. Who could sum it up better than Mark Blundell?:

"They've got a new image. They've got everything that they're moving into in a different way - whole new process - but what they've got to be careful of is they don't lead the way on the track, that they're leaving behind technology and performance where they really are frustration there, because Button and Barrichello, they're scratching their heads already at the first race and that's not what they want."

Someone whose English is better than that of the average eight year old, perhaps.
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

Post by Wallio »

MartinJS81 wrote:Ah, the Earth Car. Who could sum it up better than Mark Blundell?:

"They've got a new image. They've got everything that they're moving into in a different way - whole new process - but what they've got to be careful of is they don't lead the way on the track, that they're leaving behind technology and performance where they really are frustration there, because Button and Barrichello, they're scratching their heads already at the first race and that's not what they want."

Someone whose English is better than that of the average eight year old, perhaps.


Didn't the Honda mechanics tape cigarette lighters to the dashes of those bloody heaps in Brazil and order Jenson and Rubens to burn the cars after finishing?
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Re: Your most controversial F1 innovation?

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Wallio wrote:
MartinJS81 wrote:Ah, the Earth Car. Who could sum it up better than Mark Blundell?:

"They've got a new image. They've got everything that they're moving into in a different way - whole new process - but what they've got to be careful of is they don't lead the way on the track, that they're leaving behind technology and performance where they really are frustration there, because Button and Barrichello, they're scratching their heads already at the first race and that's not what they want."

Someone whose English is better than that of the average eight year old, perhaps.


Didn't the Honda mechanics tape cigarette lighters to the dashes of those bloody heaps in Brazil and order Jenson and Rubens to burn the cars after finishing?

Global warming at its best, setting fire to the Earth car.
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